Une Enfant Du Siecle Like/Dislike Poll

[severianb]

Originally Posted by Azhiri

This album has grown on me even more recently.

During marching season, on our really long bus drives to Tennessee and other states for competitions, I'd listen to two albums: the soundtrack to Where the Wild Things Are on the way there to get me hyped up, in a good mood, and ready to perform; and UEdS on the drive back to help me sleep and mellow out after all the excitement. They both worked wonders and I associate them with some of the best memories of my life. I'm sticking to the same strategy next season.

Originally Posted by lefty12357

I listen to UEDS a lot in the car. As a matter of fact I listened to it this afternoon.

Occasionally I have music listening nights at my house where each of my friends brings over a CD of their choice. We listen to each one without talking or any other interruptions. We take a brief intermission between each CD. Each of us tries to come up with something really interesting that the others haven't heard. Of course I've used these opportunities to play Alizée, as well as other music. It's a great way to listen to concept albums in particular. I know it probably sounds weird, but we are all musicians and we take our listening very seriously.

Two wonderful positive posts by a couple of the most musically talented people we have here. Thanks so much, both of you.

I hope I get to hear some of the wonderful music you make in the future... that has been inspired by your listening experiences.

[RobandSandy]

Originally Posted by jung_adore_ALIZEE

I didn't realize that anyone putting out concept albums is ahead of their time .

Alice Cooper was no more ahead of his time than any of the other original Rock bands were. Just as say Kamelot as a more recent example with two concept albums, "Epica" and "The Black Halo", are no more ahead of their time than say Nightwish, Epica, or any other symphonic metal band. Same goes for Alizee's newest album when compared to any other mellow electronica band out there. The only difference between them and a normal album is that all the songs tie together (which with most new albums it seems all songs go back to the same meaning throughout the whole album), doesn't make it cutting edge or ahead of their time. The actual material speaks for how cutting edge it is.

It all just comes down to if you like it, if you do you do and if not, big deal.

Regards,

Jung

That may be true of todays scene, The Who were considered progressive back then, Pink Floyd, the same, Alice? well ok mabey not. It is a matter of taste. I still like that rock opera stuff I burned some of it. But others that r into metal I tried to show did not care for it as much. as like Motorhead lets say or Metallica mabey. Metallica tried the whole symphony rock thing I think, they could not make it work for them.

[jung_adore_ALIZEE]

Originally Posted by RobandSandy

That may be true of todays scene,

It's true of any time it's about the material, not about what type of album it is.

Regards,

Jung

[severianb]

Originally Posted by Junkmale

Ueds didn't sell well.... The fact that it wasn't very good didn't help.

Uh, that's not a FACT, that's an OPINION. Many of us love UEDS, and some think it's her best work ever.

Some here, unfortunately, don't seem to grasp the concept of constructive criticism.

I totally grasp that concept. Stating that UEDS "wasn't very good" is not constructive. Saying something like, "I believe Alizée is not suited to electro, and her voice and image work best in a pop/dance mix" would be constructive.

I LOVE Alize. I will be a Fan for the rest of my life but that dosen't mean that i can't see the obvious errors that her career path has taken.
I totally fail to comprehend how anyone can honestly believe that the fault lies with the French public when it quite clearly dosen't and i've yet to see an argument that will convince me otherwise.

Obvious in hindsight. To me and others its pretty "obvious" that much of the French public thinks of her as the "Lolita" or a Mylene puppet and won't accept her as anything else, no matter how good her work is. I'd love to be proven wrong. Oh, and the sales of Psych were pathetic in France compared to Mexico. They did abandon her.

Edit:

Originally Posted by FanDeAliFee

Happily, through things like the novel Lolita, Mylène taught Alizée that the only proper thing for a girl to do with a teddy bear upon reaching adolescence is to bury the fucking SOB alive!

Sometimes, your posts are hard to read, but I'm glad I did.... this made me laugh pretty damn hard. Way to bring some sense to that screwed up video.... "let's take a sweet pop princess and put her in some dark hell" ... WTF?

[Scruffydog777]

Originally Posted by severianb

Uh, that's not a FACT, that's an OPINION. Many of us love UEDS, and some think it's her best work ever.

Many is a very relative term. You say many of us, I assume you mean members of AAm and maybe AF. How many "active" members do these two forums have and of those active members, how many think UEDS was her best work. I don't think it's a very impressive number, and after all the French media labled this album a flop. Do you think that's something they do lightly? There was no tour, no concerts. There are many awards presented by the music industry for all different types of music, not just main stream music. They often recognize artistic merit by non-mainstream artists. Did UEDS win anything? Are you trying to say the French media doesn't know what they are doing? Are you trying to say the French music establishment is too stupid to recognize artistic merit? Could it be that the album just wasn't that good?

Originally Posted by severianb

I totally grasp that concept. Stating that UEDS "wasn't very good" is not constructive. Saying something like, "I believe Alizée is not suited to electro, and her voice and image work best in a pop/dance mix" would be constructive.

I realize you'r just saying " I believe Alizee is not suited to electro.........." to use as an example here and you probably don't believe that or maybe you do. But I just want to state that I don't think electro was necessarily a bad direction for her to go in. I think it was mainly a very poor choice of bands (CM) for her to hook up with and a concept album based on the life of Edie Sedgwick was also a wrong choice. She should have looked for more of a variety of electro music.

Originally Posted by severianb

Obvious in hindsight. To me and others its pretty "obvious" that much of the French public thinks of her as the "Lolita" or a Mylene puppet and won't accept her as anything else, no matter how good her work is.

I totally disagree with this. I think the past two albums just haven't been that good and her image during the Psych era didn't help things out. Her image during the UEDS era looked like it was going to be a lot better, but the album never got out of the starting blocks for her to find out.

In essence what you are saying here is millions of people in France are ignorant. You're saying that these people have been imprinted by the Lolita and now they can't recognize a good song when they hear one.

[Deepwaters]

Originally Posted by Scruffydog777

Many is a very relative term. You say many of us, I assume you mean members of AAm and maybe AF. How many "active" members do these two forums have and of those active members, how many think UEDS was her best work.

Pattern: Someone points out that whether UEDS is "good" or "not good" is a subjective opinion. You come back with in effect a survey, or implied survey, of how popular or unpopular it is, as if this were the same thing as good or not good. It's not. There's no getting around it: judgments of quality are subjective and there is no way to turn them into an objective, provable question. You're just going to have to live with that reality.

Now, you want to say that it didn't sell well, that it wasn't a very popular album, that it wasn't a commercial success -- that's objective and provable (and true). But to say this means it wasn't good is false reasoning.

In essence what you are saying here is millions of people in France are ignorant.

Pick any country in the world and the majority of its people are indeed quite ignorant. I'm sure the French are not immune to this universal human condition.

[DrSmith]

Originally Posted by Scruffydog777

Many is a very relative term. You say many of us, I assume you mean members of AAm and maybe AF. How many "active" members do these two forums have and of those active members, how many think UEDS was her best work. I don't think it's a very impressive number, and after all the French media labled this album a flop. Do you think that's something they do lightly? There was no tour, no concerts. There are many awards presented by the music industry for all different types of music, not just main stream music. They often recognize artistic merit by non-mainstream artists. Did UEDS win anything? Could it be that the album just wasn't that good?

No it couldn't be, because "good" is subjective. What you're doing is belittling the taste and opinions of anyone who doesn't agree with you, and trying to justify your opinions with data.

It doesn't matter how many statistics you can pull about album sales or the number of people who like it versus the number who don't, it won't turn your opinion into a fact. You can dislike Psychédélices and Une enfant du siècle all day long, but when you try to tell people who like them that they aren't good, you're just being ignorant.

Looking at popular music, it should be glaringly obvious that how well something sells can not be an accurate measure of how good it is (if for no other reason than because "good" is subjective). So you can lay your "UEDS didn't sell well because it isn't good" theory to rest, because it's flawed on every level.

<hr>
Then why did Une enfant du siècle sell so poorly?

a) poor marketing; not enough people knew about the album
b) Alizée's past image; the French public think she is a joke / don't want to like her / are not willing to give her new music a chance
c) niche appeal; the music appeals to a group too small to sell huge numbers
d) any combination of the above

Whatever the reason, it wasn't because the album isn't good.

[Scruffydog777]

Originally Posted by Deepwaters

Pick any country in the world and the majority of its people are indeed quite ignorant. I'm sure the French are not immune to this universal human condition.

This is a very clever way of tap dancing around the subject. You aren't willing to come out and say that most of the people in France who heard her album are too ignorant to realize it might be good, but you're readily willing to imply it. So are you or are you not saying these people in France are ignorant, or will you do some more tap dancing?

Bottom line is except for the limited amount of people in these forums, I haven't heard any one of significance say that this a good album in any kind of way.


EDIT:

Originally Posted by DrSmith

No it couldn't be, because "good" is subjective. What you're doing is belittling the taste and opinions of anyone who doesn't agree with you, and trying to justify your opinions with data.
.

Well isn't this comment belittling "To me and others its pretty "obvious" that much of the French public thinks of her as the "Lolita" or a Mylene puppet and won't accept her as anything else, no matter how good her work is."
and didn't Deepwaters belittle the people of France by "implying" they might be ignorant.
Oh but in these cases, it's okay becuase it's in support of what you believe.

Originally Posted by DrSmith

Whatever the reason, it wasn't because the album isn't good.

Another opinion. Could be wrong. Could be right, but like I said, all it is, is an opinion.

[DrSmith]

Originally Posted by Scruffydog777

Well isn't this comment belittling "To me and others its pretty "obvious" that much of the French public thinks of her as the "Lolita" or a Mylene puppet and won't accept her as anything else, no matter how good her work is."
and didn't Deepwaters belittle the people of France by "implying" they might be ignorant.
Oh but in these cases, it's okay becuase it's in support of what you believe.

Didn't you just say something about "tap dancing around the subject"? And now you're doing it.

I'm not talking on behalf of severianb or Deepwaters. I'm talking about you constantly saying Alizée's past two albums "aren't good" as if it's an objective truth—and trying to prove it based on sales and popularity. It's not—and you can't.

Whether or not the music is good is solely a matter of taste.

<hr>

Originally Posted by Scruffy

Another opinion. Could be wrong. Could be right, but like I said, all it is, is an opinion.

You're not getting it, so let me rephrase this: "It's not good" is not a reason for it selling poorly because "it's not good" is not an inherent quality. It is subjective.

"Most people did not find it to be good" would be an acceptable reason (which I covered under "niche appeal.")

Still, "most people" do not get to dictate their taste as objective truth.
<br>

[lefty12357]

I wish I could point out the articles I've read, but I can't because I don't remember where I saw them. But regardless, UEDS has received some good critical reviews as far as its musical and artistic qualities are concerned.

What “sells” has nothing to do with good and bad. A perfect example of this is Rebecca Black’s recent success with “Friday”. Personally, I think one would have a difficult time arguing that “Friday” has a high degree of artistic and musical quality, but it definitely is selling. I would be disappointed if Alizée did an album of "Friday" type songs just to sell.

Think about your own career, whatever it may be. You gain a lot of specialized knowledge. You also become aware that the general public knows actually very little about what you do and what constitutes quality work on your part. Music is no different. The general public actually knows very little about music, but that doesn't mean they are ignorant. However they know what they like and what they don't like, and that's what determines where they will spend their money. We shouldn't confuse quality with quantity.