POLL - Artistic Grant to Alizée

[FanDeAliFee]

There is an interesting news item from a year ago I thought I'd bring to your attention. Certainly you know that one of the <i>UEdS</i> album songs about Andy Warhol's "factory girl" is titled <i>Grand Central</i>.

Reuters <a href="http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSTRE52N5SI20090324">reports</a>:
<blockquote><i>NEW YORK
Tue Mar 24, 2009 3:15pm EDT

A can of Campbell's soup, it's not. But Andy Warhol still considered the BMW 'art car' he designed to be a masterpiece... The car goes on display on at Grand Central Terminal Tuesday along with three other BMW art cars... After the installation at Grand Central, the BMW art cars will go on a three-museum tour in Mexico.</i></blockquote>The reason I bring this up is how quickly Warhol executed his design. As explained <a href="http://www.bmwdrives.com/artcars/bmw-artcars-warhol.php">here</a>
<blockquote><i>All previous Art Car artists created their designs on 1:5 scale models, called maquettes, and had technicians reproduce their designs on the real cars. Warhol insisted on painting the real M1 himself. He is reported to have spent all of 23 minutes painting the car. He ran his fingers through the paint to leave a personal touch.</i></blockquote>I have no evidence how much BMW paid Warhol, but I bet it was a LOT more than $1,000 or even $10,000. Or do you really think he agreed to do the job for less than the cost of one unit of this luxury automobile?

I don't know what you think of the design work of Andy Warhol or any other artist. But for whatever reason, "The highest price ever paid for a Warhol painting is $100 million for a 1963 canvas titled Eight Elvises... $100 million is a benchmark price that only Jackson Pollock, Pablo Picasso, Gustav Klimt and Willem de Kooning have achieved." according to <a href="http://www.economist.com/specialreports/displaystory.cfm?story_id=14941229"><i>The Economist</i></a>.

Now I want to remind you of the 11 year-old girl from Ajaccio who won the <i>Air Outre-Mer</i> "Art Airplane" design contest, beating out 7,000? other contestants. I don't know if she took longer than Andy Warhol did for his design, but her prize was a roundtrip to the Maldives for her whole family, worth thousands of dollars.

Wouldn't it be wonderful to own an original design executed by this girl? Well, if you are among the Fortunate Fifty, you do! Dedication names aside, no two designs are the same. And it even includes Fairy Dust.

So when some here have suggested it is not appropriate to award Alizée an Art Grant, but ONLY compensate her on a <i>quid pro quo</i> basis for her <i>products</i>, then it seems to me they have just argued that the people who accepted her original album cover designs owe her some money as a prize-winning visual artist, for her produce is not simply restricted to her singing, dance, and theatrics.

The only debate is how much her "23 minutes of painting" compares to Andy's 23 minutes of painting. (And he didn't even hang around with his clients!) I have suggested that if <i>auctioned</i>, the customization she applied to the CD cases could have added thousands of dollars to their value among the membership of Alizée America. That being the case, the Alizée entourage should not be too bashful to accept a fee of € 1000, if not more, for similar 30-minute private meetings during which one can commune with these artists on a personal level, and also take away 50 unique pieces of visual art, when provided with 50 pedestrian <i>UEdS</i> CDs.

How much is an original "Alizée" worth to you?

[awkward Turtle]

I personally wouldn't give her a grant. I already spent way more than I could afford for the Une Enfant du Siècle limited edition box set and the picture disk. She is not hurting for money, and she knows if she wants more she just needs to come out with something new and cool and collectible, and people like me will survive on Ramen noodles to buy it

[Bigdan]

Don't be offended Docdtv, but my first reaction is still Deepwaters one...

Originally Posted by Deepwaters

Docdtv:

No matter how much verbiage you present in its support, or how eloquent you become, it's still a dumb idea. Please let it be diverted into something that might not be such a dumb idea.

Thanks.

But anyway, to be clear, all I argue about is
1/ Alizée réaction
As I said ,especially if she don't get your "Artistic Grant concept", she could be surprised ...maybe more... But , to be less negative, she could also just laugh and say " Those crazy americans ! " . In any case, it will not help , i think.

2/ The media ( french one first)
I'm pretty sure they will not speak about it, and if they do, it will not be the way you want it.


So, the closest principle I found to your idea is http://www.mymajorcompany.com/
Here, you send money to participate to the music project of a new artist. Which means your becoming one of hundred of "little" producers of the album to come.
it will be the best thing to do, to help an artist to create his album. (here, you help a project , not a person, and you receive dividends if it sell well)

Unfortunatly, Institubes seems not working like this...

Originally Posted by docdtv

I said that if any enduring contact emerged between Alizee America and the Alizee entourage, we needed a FRENCH member of Alizee America to act as what in diplomatic circles is called the "Honorary Counsel" - a native national, whom the foreign entity trusts to intermediate. In fact, I nominated a certain Parisian you know very well.

Well, I am flattered ... But I'm not sure I want to have such "official" responsabilies... anyway, on limited actions, i can offer you some help.
The best I can do , I think its to give you some advices about some strange rituals and way of thinking of French Tribes...

Originally Posted by docdtv

With similar conditions in both France and the United States, since the latter has 5 times as many people, it will be 5 times as rich in total - but not per capita. I do not know for sure how knowledgeable either average French or American people are. But is it possible French think Americans are richer and Americans think French are richer?

I was not speaking about the real conditions of each countries... Only about the cliché we ( as French) or French media use to have...

(I don't say that's what Alizée think, just the way popular media will chose to present it.)


One again , my opinion is that our goddess need more buzz than money.
And she need it NOW. ( when the news about her return are still fresh.)



.

[another_alizee_fan]

I've spent lots of money on Alizée products over the years, even purchased her CDs and DVD legally so I don't think I should donate more money to her. She's probably already a multi-millionaire so I don't think $1000 will mean much to her, it will probably be more of an annoyance to her by having to deal with it. But the thought is good.

[Roman]

Originally Posted by docdtv

...
How much is an original "Alizée" worth to you?

Your point is taken. In the context of "art" pretty much anything goes. It's all about presentation, perception, reputation. I think Warhol's art was crap myself (or what I have seen of it), but Alizée, for example, thinks the idea of "The Factory" and generally the kind of work that was done there was really cool and I suppose I can understand that. Obviously, many people have thought that. Alizée's challenge was in creating a popular perception that could match and maybe even surpass what she had taken part in creating in the past. It's not about what any of it was worth, but about what people could somehow come to think it's worth, which is what it's worth by definition.

But obviously you enjoy going "down a rat hole" as they say, with your posts. Not like me. I'm just compelled to do so.

Anyway, to be honest, due to times of failing interest at the beginning of the year and having already spent money on the deluxe boxed set, I didn't buy Alizée's single of Les Collines. But I guess I got sucked back in enough to have my moments of inspiration with regard to Alizée. The album worms it's way in, you know? So, that's where I stand. What shall I do now? I don't know. That depends. I need to find someone who is determined to do something cool in this world to follow.

As for what fans can do, I guess it doesn't have to cost all that much if you have a huge enough fan base to find those dedicated enough and talented enough:
[Award winning unofficial prequel to The Lord of the Rings dramatising Aragorn & Gandalf's long search for Gollum. This 40 minute film, made by fans for fans is based on the appendices of LOTR and was painstakingly shot on a low budget as a homage to Peter Jackson's trilogy and the writing of J.R.R. Tolkien.
Costing less than $5,000 to make, with a team of volunteers, Independent Online Cinema are proud to have brought Middle-earth to the screen once more. We hope you enjoy The Hunt For Gollum as much as we enjoyed making it.]
Still, supporting Alizée is even more difficult in a way because there is only one Alizée on Earth and she only exists as she is for one moment at a time and the universe will never again see that Alizée. I'm sure many fans have had a great time creating art inspired by Alizée, including that full on professionally produced Mexican JEAM music video. But there is no substitute for Alizée in so far as one is a fan of Alizée. (Though JEAM sort of became bigger than Alizée herself. It's sad that she can't even admit that she's popular in Mexico because of it; she has her reasons I guess.)

Anyway, I am not so sure anymore that doing some crazy stunt would be worth much. So what if the "media" in France gets a whiff of something intriguing? She's been doing interview after interview in France. Does France not see her? Would that actually cause a big spike in her popularity and sales?

I think if it's a question between maybe getting something that the fans can actually enjoy and trying to do more promotion, I'd go for the former. I don't have much confidence in promotion anymore. Am I wrong?

She did the low budget David Rubato 50/60 remix video. I think that if someone presented a sincere desire to work with her and had some good ideas, she might consider it. Of course, she's apparently difficult to rope into doing anything and one must finally be prepared to be wholly ignored if not graced with rejection. I'm not sure if she just doesn't trust foreigners or just isn't interested in doing stuff until she feels very comfortable with it. Admittedly I'm not privy to much in the way of details of all the times Alizée has rejected/ignored people trying to work with her. So, of course, one must take care and luckily there are people like BigDan to help out with that. For all know, I come off as a real jerk. Maybe I am sometimes. It sucks, but that's life. I'm certainly not one to figure out how to negotiate the delicate paths leading to the acquiescence of this rarest of creatures: woman, French, Corsican, rather complicated work history (when you start considering certain things)...

Just read BigDan's other post. Yes, mymajorcompany.com. There was in the last couple years some popular French singer who got started that way or with a similar service. Just because Alizée has already been famous, does that mean she can't do that? Well, you said Institubes is not into it. Hmm. Still. The only reason the Mexicans succeeded and saved Alizée's career (and I do see it that way because it's where she had her concerts; maybe she doesn't see how important that was) to all of our benefits is because 1) admittedly people just plain took to her better there. Maybe they are easily led and have less distractions or less interesting stuff in their own country. I don't know, but 2) they were bold and didn't let anything stop them (and in that way put everyone else in the world to shame if you ask me, just in terms of their commitment and effort). I'm a humble man obviously.

And I don't know about multi-millionaire, but she obviously has enough money to live on and probably more than any of us. That's beside the point, or my point. I have thought about a grant myself, but I was thinking more like $30,000. Ok, grant, commission, call it what you want. What it means is not a gift, but money intended to be spent on some particular project, wherein she would probably still retain certain rights to works created and maybe not have much in the way of requirements in the case of a grant. She licenses her album to Sony. Is she only willing to do work that she has initiated? What does the press care anyway? They don't seem like they are really paying any attention to her anyway. No one ever seems to really know much about her when they talk to her, though yeah, I get that sometimes it might just be because they want to ask her questions that she can answer. One could try to keep it under wraps, but I guess with all the talk amongst forums, it would get out that she was receiving a grant/commission.

She acted as a DJ in a club the other night. What was that about?

Anyway, it looks from the poll that Alizée America is not interested in doing that.

Anyway, here's another interesting site for taking collections, but only charging people once the goal has been reached. http://www.thepoint.com/

[lefty12357]

So what is the purpose for giving Alizée a grant? What problem is it intended to solve? There seems to be an assumption in all this that Alizée’s problem is a lack of funds to create her music. Alizée has the means to record the music. Her own “for profit” company has licensed her recording to a large multinational record company to market and distribute it. They have plenty of resources. We will never be able contribute financially in a significant way, and as long as Alizée’s project is tied financially to a “for profit” enterprise, I think a grant is not appropriate. A grant is more appropriate to struggling artists with no means of creating and distributing their art. If Alizée were to ever find herself in that situation, then maybe she would have to consider ways of raising money. But we are far from that at this point.

Alizée has done numerous TV, internet and print interviews as well as appearances on radio for the UEDS promotion. She has yet to perform on TV, but I would assume that is coming if she can find a TV show to appear on. With all this, she is having trouble winning back the French public. Maybe she still hasn't had enough exposure. But we can’t fix that with any amount of money we could raise. The album is good, but the problem that needs to be solved is one of a mindset of a mass of people. The problems Alizée faces are not solved by giving her a grant and it won’t help her sell her music. And the bottom line is, she needs to sell more music.

@Doc, I would listen to Bigdan. He knows what he’s talking about ! I truly appreciate your efforts and I’m sure you are trying to do the right thing, but in my opinion, a grant is the wrong thing to do. I'm convinced that offering such a thing would destroy any relationship Alizée has with us. We should brainstorm on other promotional ideas in the USA. I think we need to attract the attention of the media in this country. A few reports on the "Alizée Phenomenon" in the US may prompt some people to look her up and buy her music.

[Ruroshen]

Originally Posted by Roman

Anyway, it looks from the poll that Alizée America is not interested in doing that.

Yeah, this.

All debate aside...as of this writing, fully half of the respondents to the poll appear to want nothing to do with the idea at all, or at least aren't willing to contribute to it. (And while it may appear to be a small sample size, 32 voters actually represents a decent share of the regularly active members on the forum.) No offense to anyone, but I believe that's reason enough to table the discussion of an "artistic grant" right there.

Edit: Y'know, one thing I've sometimes wondered about...what if instead we were to raise money for a French charity, like Restos du Coeur or a kids' hospital in Paris or something? If we were to turn it into a stunt somehow, like Desert Bus For Hope does for Child's Play every year, it could increase visibility and possibly net us some decent publicity both here at home and in France...

[VVVACCPLPNLY]

Hmm... I will have to consider your idea very seriously, ruro. I am half and half.

[rj.bagby]

Well here's my 2cents worth since that's about all the money I have left. First off I like the charity idea. That does have its good points. I was thinking If a lot of people do have some extra cash, I would suggest putting more into paying the bills for this website. This site can do as much as anything else to help promote her music in this country, then when the bills are paid maybed have a general fund where when we find radio statios that might be willing to play her music could get a press kit with the biography and some samples of her music. Somebody mentionedv this before and I thought it was an excellent idea. There is a radio station in Portland oregon KNRK 94.7 that has a program called passport approved. They will consider creating a playlist of her music, but they want a CD and they don't return them. I can't afford to send them a CD, and like someone mentioned how do you know it won't end up a present for the station managers kid. Anyway that's my 2cents.

[FanDeAliFee]

For the moment, leave aside the issue of appropriately thanking Alizée for her kindness, and ask what one might do to underwrite out-of-pocket costs associated with running Alizée America. (Ben had asked me to work with two others on promoting Alizée America, as well as Alizée.)

If the recent 50-CD customization opportunity had not emerged so quickly and serendipitously, one might have considered the following. Ben's e-mail to all registered users brought out over 150 people requesting to pay for autographed CDs. When incipient demand greatly outstrips supply and market principles apply, it is evident that the price must be raised to bring the two back into balance. That's why an an auction would have netted a tidy profit for Alizée America, stipulating Scruffy would still have fully absorbed the costs of the trip, evidence of his personal generosity. (Aside: Scruffy has several times - I don't know how many - sent Ben his own money to help run the site. The last I heard, he was also the only one to buy stuff from the Alizée America shop.)

No one knows for sure how high the price might have risen to reach market equilibrium, but we have one bit of evidence from a very analogous psychological situation:

Originally Posted by Scruffydog777

I know there's a chance I might not like
one song on this album but I will buy it anyways because like others
have already said to show her my support and because I owe her so much
for bringing as much enjoyment into my life as she has. I'm hoping
there will be an autograph session at the end of march in Paris like
the one they had back in 2007. <b>If there is, I will be there and get
her autograph in person, even if the cd cost triple the price</b>...

Based on the merchandise cost of the <i>UEdS</i> CD:

Originally Posted by Scruffydog777

...the cd's cost 15.90 euros each. With the exchange rate my bank gave
me, it came out to about 22.50 U.S. Plus they added a foreign exchange
fee of almost 40 dollars...

That comes to a unit merchandise cost of US$ 22.50 + 0.80 = 23.30. Using the suggested price tripling effect of an autograph, that predicts a theoretical profit of 50 x (3-1) x US$ 23.30 = US$ 2330.00

By the way, only today I discovered that Scruffy was stuck with an unclaimed autographed <i>Psychédélices</i> CD the other year, dedicated to someone by name. It took him less than 6 minutes to find a buyer at par value with a different name, after mentioning it here.

My past <a href="http://alizeeamerica.com/forums/converse.php?u=17&u2=2861">advice</a> to Ben includes adding third-party ads to the site to generate revenue. One quoted report says <i>the site has a 3.1 per million reach over the last quarter, 2711 daily page views, (potential?) daily ads revenue of $9.87 and an estimated worth of US$7205.1.</i>

Let's stipulate that an optimized and saturated ad portfolio would indeed be worth 365.25 x $9.87 = $3600+ annually to patrons of the site. And let's assume ads for the Alizée enterprise would be such an optimum. Then if we provided these ads to Alizée at no charge, would that be an "insult" because it only comes to a measly $3600 per year, merely a small fraction of what some allege is her net worth?

On my advice, Ben has now been more "insulting" yet! Rather than take the suggestion I made so:

<i>If I were Alizée's business manager, I would simply LOVE it if your home-page link to my client's Amazon sales portal also appeared in the
header or footer of EVERY page an AAm reader loads.</i>

He has to date implemented just the modest home page link, reading:"Buy her albums on Amazon.com"

Now, perhaps you are curious what <b>Alizée herself</b> thinks of "penny-ante" advertising gifts of this character, <b>worth but a small faction of ten bucks a day</b>. It so happens I can <b>reliably</b> show you.

Simply examine <a href="http://www.facebook.com/walltowall.php?id=100001020339550&banter_id=178577 2061&ref=nf">these</a> Facebook wall postings, including many to Melle Alizée Bis. Among them are these three multilingual variants on the same message:
<blockquote>
FanDe AliFee › Melle Alizée Bis: ¿Tiene un sitio web? ¿Tiene su club
de fans de Alizée tiene una? A continuación, realice seguro AHORA que
enlace a un minorista en línea de confianza de los discos de Alizée y
las descargas! Estos hacen los grandes regalos para los aniversarios y
Navidad, también. Muchos sitios Web estadounidense podría hacer un
link al portal de Amazon para Alizée. ¿Qué pasa en tu país? Mostrar
Alizée su amor por ella haciendo más fácil que la gente compre sus
productos!
April 15 at 4:49pm · Comment · LikeUnlike · View Feedback (8)Hide Feedback (8)
Melle Alizée Bis and Vibhash Chandra like this.

FanDe AliFee › Melle Alizée Bis: Do you have a Web site? Does your
Alizée fan club have one? Then make sure NOW that they link to a
trusted online retailer of Alizée disks and downloads! These make
great gifts for anniversaries and Christmas, too. Many American Web
sites might like to link to the Amazon portal for Alizée. What about
in your country? Show Alizée your love for her by making it easier for
people to buy her products!
April 15 at 4:48pm · Comment · LikeUnlike · View Feedback (3)Hide Feedback (3)
Melle Alizée Bis, Vibhash Chandra and Raja Dharam like this.

FanDe AliFee › Melle Alizée Bis: Avez-vous un site Web? Votre fan
club Alizée en avoir un? Ensuite, faire sûr, MAINTENANT, elles sont
liées à un détaillant en ligne de confiance de disques Alizée et les
téléchargements! Ces excellentes idées-cadeaux pour les anniversaires
et Noël, aussi. De nombreux sites Web américains aimeraient faire un
lien vers le portail Amazon pour Alizée. Qu'en est-il dans votre pays?
Voir Alizée votre amour pour elle en le rendant plus facile pour les
gens à acheter ses produits!
April 15 at 4:46pm · Comment · LikeUnlike · View Feedback (1)Hide Feedback (1)
Melle Alizée Bis likes this.
</blockquote>
Please note that in all three cases, "Melle Alizée Bis likes this."

Now let me bore you with a parable.

A quarter century ago, Americans still practiced the habit of saving about 10% of their income, which they slowly and completely gave up over the next two decades. Curiously, in China, where, on average, people live on seven (PPP) to 35 (int'l. trade) times less than do Americans, the total public and private savings rate exceeds something like 25%.

Now, there is a carpenter who lives in a part of the United States who never gave up the thirfty habit of saving a tenth of his income. In current dollars, over the past three decades, he has earned about $35,000 per year, making his total earnings in excess of a million dollars. Having saved $100,000 of that, and investing it less poorly than some others, his net worth after debts, including his home, vehicles, tools, retirement accounts and investment portfolio, is $200,000.

One day, a twenty-year-old contacts him to build some custom shelves for his apartment, which the carpenter completes as specified. Having taken 10 hours to do this, the cost for his labor comes to $175. When the time comes to settle up, the customer offers the following plea.

He says he is an entry-level clerk and makes half the hourly wage of the carpenter. He owns no land or buildings, and buys a monthly bus pass because he owns no motor vehicle. While he does own a smart phone, a netbook computer, his clothes and the pots and dishes in his kitchen, his net worth, including a tiny bank account, is only $5,000. He argues that since the carpenter is worth not twice, nor even ten times, but a whole forty times what he is worth, the carpenter should make his labor on the shelves a gift.

The carpenter says the customer should have said that before he began working. He would have advised that instead of indulging in the luxury of custom shelves, he should have settled for buying a standard prefab shelf kit at the discount store and assembling it himself, for a much lower cost. The carpenter explains that while indeed he has earned over a million dollars, and has a net worth of $200,000, he has always made his money a measly $175 at a time. He still does, a sum he is not ashamed to ask of his customers. He does good work and if he had not spent the ten hours making these new shelves, he would have spent it in other ways he found in his interest.

People can be transformed from ordinary joes into celebrities in a number of ways, and then they can make money from their fame itself.I will not vouch for the exact claims of what is written at <a href="http://www.allamericanspeakers.com/sportspeakers/Celebrity_Personal_Appearance.php">this</a> Web page, but the allegations it makes are worth considering. Among other things, it writes this:<blockquote><i>All American Speakers Bureau provides famous celebrity speakers for marketing and personal appearances, including top-rated Business Motivators, Entertainers, Sports Celebrities, Political Figures, Motivational Speakers, Authors, Comedians, Celebrity Chefs, Political Commentators, Columnists, Writers, Actors, and Musicians to corporations, universities, associations and organizations throughout the world. We can help you book a celebrity personal appearance... Identifying the right celebrity for your organization or special event is paramount to the success of your marketing campaign or corporate function... According to USA Today: "Having a star at a fundraising event will almost guarantee more money for a charity's coffers, sometimes boosting the take by fivefold or more."</i></blockquote>Sometimes a celebrity will use his skill to help a cause gratis, as Alizée does for Les Enfoirés. Such work can also serve to remind people of one's talent, personality and potential availability. Lawyers, accountants, engineers and others in anonymous communities worldwide often do similar work for parallel <b>mixed</b> motives.

But there is also compensated celebrity appearances for the sake of their income as well. It is not fraudulent or coercive. It is a way of making an honest living giving people pleasure in yet another way. When Peggy Fleming shows up at a professional convention she will not skate; when Shaquille O'Neal shows up at a building fundraiser he will not shoot hoops. People will come and listen and socialize for the pleasure of meeting with folks who have accomplished what few have, and becoming a small part of the magic of their special lives.

Alizée, Jean-René Etienne and the others were very gracious to give Alizée America a <b>private</b> audience at which their questions were answered, people posed for still and video photography largely as they were asked to do, and fifty lovely custom designs were rendered as keepsakes by an award-winning visual artist. As computed above, the artwork alone might be not be unreasonably valued at over US$ 2000.

Even if <b>in the ever-receding past</b> someone has participated in the proceeds from the sale of over 5 million recordings, and thereby made much more money than many others her age (although not nearly as much as too many people may imagine), it is still not unseemly for her to honestly earn a thousand dollars here and there by making herself decently available for an hour of her finite time, simply for the enjoyment of strangers.

Just like the carpenter, entertainers like Alizée earn their money one day at a time, whether it is by singing before several thousand people, or socializing with a small group of especially privileged fans. If you couldn't afford the custom shelves, you should have bought the DIY kit at the discount store. Maybe the problem is that carpenters are not aggressive enough in charging up front for their efforts. I hope they do not make mistakes like that again.

My parents taught me that if you accept a very expensive gift, especially from a stranger, you are obliged to reciprocate. Maybe your parents had a different philosophy.

And if you think Alizée is not upset by the illegal distribution of copyrighted art work, you have not been listening to her interviews. She says it is injuring the music business. She says she will not take music files without making payment. Do you think she says this because it is a hardship for her to pay for the music she consumes? No, it is just a very polite way of saying that people should stop stealing HER stuff. She does not want to stop working for pay, even if her pay rate today is rather less than it was at the start of the decade. But if she does settle on working for less, it is all the more important that "inventory shrinkage" is discouraged.

Someone writes that Alizée recently worked as a disk jockey. I hope her agent charged the venue a handsome fee, perhaps using some of the reasons I have given in several posts within this thread.

I have not yet contacted the various members of the Fortunate Fifty to solicit their participation in this poll, in which half the voters to date are electing to make pledges of varying sizes. One can speculate whether those pledging zero oppose the original suggestion or simply have no means to undertake further financial support of Alizée, especially in economically trying times like these. But speculation is not proof.

Let me say I am nothing but delighted by the various alternative ideas which my original query has elicited, including many ongoing schemes for artistic subsidy previously unknown to me. No one who is confident in the value of his personal opinion should want to see others silenced, or the abortion of the measurement I originally sought to make. Do make other measurements, if you like.

I know Scruffy meant well, but perhaps he did a disservice telling the Alizée entourage we number nearly 2,000 people, if we matter more than marginally to them. A poll like this one evidences who is really listening - and more, willing to make a substantive contribution. If you cannot even raise a lousy € 1000 for Alizée's own work, perhaps implemented with a check payable to Institubes, good luck trying to raise it to underwrite the work of Alizée America.

In the final analysis, Alizée America is Ben's creature alone. I am not interested in being its banker or its spokesman. Whatever this or that group of members here proposes, it will fall to him to collect any money and speak on behalf of the site - or delegate that to someone else. There are many online Alizée "fan clubs" (I belong to several) and even single-fan Web sites (I publish one). If you feel your voice here is being unfairly quashed, Google Groups is only too happy to host gratis your new discussion forum called http://groups.google.com/group/unfit-for-alizeeamerica . And Weebly will happily host gratis your new general ad-free Web site called http://unfit-for-alizeeamerica.weebly.com/ It is not necessary to take part in Alizée America to help Alizée, even collectively in a material way. Those still here hope Alizée America can be of value, or at least of fun.