[MDO] Alizée's Career

[Corsaire]

What is the point to complain about the content of a thread? If all applicable rules are respected, then all consenting members should be allowed to have the discussions they want without having to adopt any particular mood.

I haven’t participated to this thread yet because I have discussed this issue in the past and I find that there is not much more I can contribute or learn. This does not mean that I won’t participate in the future, but I just don’t feel like doing so right now. I would suggest that others who are not interested in discussing this particular topic (and the possible pessimistic mood that is associated with it) just avoid this thread. This seems like a reasonable and easy solution.

There are many members here who post stuff that I dislike. There are also plenty of threads that I really don’t care for. Some of the stuff I post myself probably irritates a fair share of members as well. So? What should we do about this? Create a specific list of topics that we will exclusively discuss and specific moods we will all be forced to adopt? These are public forums and there is no forcing such restrictions.

For those who want a more positive mood, I would suggest promoting just that in an attempt to counteract the perceived negativity and pessimism. For example, in the present thread, one could make more “positive” contributions and just keep to interactions with members who share the same views. Maybe that would make it more fruitful for people who find all this sad and depressing. Also, be inventive, created new threads, try new topics, or try to find a different angle to older topics...

[Mon Maquis]

I do agree with Scruffy again...

There is been soooo many times I say something about Alizee and say she was offered things (US promotions) but she choose to ignore them. Then I get flamed... or people say to me why do you act like know things...

So I don't post much anymore because of this...Because everyone does not want to hear that she does not care...

Sooooo... the promotions I had for Alizee then were given to another French artist... Has it helped them....YUP! Alizee's loss...

[pepelepew]

Originally Posted by Mon Maquis

I do agree with Scruffy again...

There is been soooo many times I say something about Alizee and say she was offered things (US promotions) but she choose to ignore them. Then I get flamed... or people say to me why do you act like know things...

So I don't post much anymore because of this...Because everyone does not want to hear that she does not care...

Sooooo... the promotions I had for Alizee then were given to another French artist... Has it helped them....YUP! Alizee's loss...

I have really enjoyed your posts Mon Maquis when you discussed Alizee's missed opportunities for US promotion and other tidbits from your direct knowledge. However the follow up statements that she doesn't care or it is Alizee's loss is a pure assumption or conclusion that is just your opinion. There are many possible reasons for her behaviour in many situations. Maybe you know more than what you share on this forum, but when you or others make statements without backing them up with facts it is frustrating and I tend to confront statements that aren't backed with facts especially when it is about Alizee. I'm really not trying to be critical. I am just explaining what influences me to confront fans and I may be judged as only wanting positive responses about Alizee. I know also that it is difficult to explain ourselves fully when comments are on a one dimensional format and not the luxury of voice, facial expressions, and hand gestures. That is why texting and Facebook bores the hell out of me. Any way I know we all have our opinions and pet peeves and my opinions will probably piss someone off, but I just wanted to interject my opinions for what it is worth. Oh! I also believe that almost everyone on this forum truly love Alizee and want the best for her.

[Chuck]

First, the best quote here of late:

Originally Posted by Un-rêve

There's nothing wrong with people venting out their frustrations concerning Alizée's carreer but the fact is we have all been spoilt rotten by Alizée in the past.

Sure it would be great to go back to how things were in the beginning.. mainly because of how she was adored by everyone in France and well all over Europe for that matter. Moi... Lolita was phenomenal! The public is fickle though and they lose interest, but we are FANS and that's the difference!

It's really not her fault that she's not BIG anymore. Yeah she could've done this and she could've done that (well she did) but the way I see it is.. every artist has their classic album, performances etc, and Alizée has hers. [...] It's been a ride!

Alizée's carreer has been beautiful too.

Now here's one side, making some excellent points:

Originally Posted by HelixSix

Criticizing her is fine. But when you guys rage in thread after thread after thread so many times it gets very old. Especially when you guys seem to be proud of it. You make it a priority to try and prove what you think she has and is doing wrong at every opportunity. That is my issue.

brb I'm gonna go to the Eagles forum and say it was a bad idea for Vick to fight dogs and that if he wants to improve his image he should go on Oprah. Until he wins the superbowl I'm gonna repeat it. For years if I have to.

For YEARS, he says!
Now here's two guys on another side, also making excellent points:

Originally Posted by Scruffydog777

Oh it's okay for people to sing her praises day after day after day, but if somebody criticizes a few times, that's unforgivable and I'm sure you don't see the hypocrisy in that.

I have a vendetta against yes men. They say she can do no wrong, and because she has so many fans like that, her career is very near an end.

Scruffy, don't sweat it - you're always (and ever shall be) one of our most Respected and Revered Representatives. Personally, I love you (ahem, uh bro) and I'm eternally grateful to you for everything you've contributed to Alizée and all of us. Including your posts, inputs, and opinions. You're a straight-shooter, you gotta say it like you believe it, and you've proven repeatedly that you don't just talk the talk, you walk the walk. So Scruffdog, please don't worry about "pressure" from anyone to alter, edit, or curb your statements or beliefs. (We wanna hear everyone's sides, here, right?) And please don't take it the wrong way when I say I'm one of the people who don't always agree with you. That doesn't even matter, because we in the US all basically are wanting the exact same thing (american tour I, II, III, IV...), we just envision it happening in different ways.

Scruffy, I do support Lili's having parted from F&B. (I don't know that that makes me a "yes-man", or just a plain realist.) But I do agree with you on this: to reboot this career, she'd need an expert manager. Someone who would demand commitment. Someone who would be able to pull her away from her happy, idyllic lifestyle, and make her do more recordings, tv spots, concerts, appearances, traveling, work, work, work, work and work!

I suspect she's not in a big hurry to hire this person.

__________________________________________________ _________________________

Speaking of controversial posters whom I still respect and value, here's MonMaquis! You may not like him, but I do...

Originally Posted by Mon Maquis

I do agree with Scruffy again...

There is been soooo many times I say something about Alizee and say she was offered things (US promotions) but she choose to ignore them. Then I get flamed... or people say to me why do you act like know things...

So I don't post much anymore because of this...Because everyone does not want to hear that she does not care...

Sooooo... the promotions I had for Alizee then were given to another French artist... Has it helped them....YUP! Alizee's loss...

MM, it's true, we don't "want to hear that she does not care... ", we'd rather hear that she cares very much about each and every one of us. Personally. If you told us that Alizée prints out our avatar pictures and kisses them and hangs them all up in her house, we'd gladly believe that. But you and your endlessly rubbing our faces with facts - that, mister, we don't need. (jk)

Originally Posted by Corsaire

What is the point to complain about the content of a thread? If all applicable rules are respected, then all consenting members should be allowed to have the discussions they want without having to adopt any particular mood.

"What is the point to complain about the content of a thread?" Good point. But sometimes there's postings that HAVE to be edited or deleted. In such a case, if one does not have the mod powers to make the necessary changes, one must complain to those who do.

Otherwise, people complaining about others' opinions is just more opinions. I for one am quite glad we don't all agree here at AAm all the time. It would just get boring, in a hurry.

Originally Posted by pepelepew

I have really enjoyed your posts Mon Maquis when you discussed Alizee's missed opportunities for US promotion and other tidbits from your direct knowledge. However the follow up statements that she doesn't care or it is Alizee's loss is a pure assumption or conclusion that is just your opinion. [...] Any way I know we all have our opinions and pet peeves and my opinions will probably piss someone off, but I just wanted to interject my opinions for what it is worth. Oh! I also believe that almost everyone on this forum truly love Alizee and want the best for her.

[HelixSix]

Originally Posted by Scruffydog777

Oh it's okay for people to sing her praises day after day after day, but if somebody criticizes a few times, that's unforgivalbe and I'm sure you don't see the hypocrisy in that.

Of course many people are gonna praise her but I don't see the ones who push it on everybody all the time or are in denial. If you can show me those people that would be nice. And once again if you think you are only criticizing her a "few" times you are wrong.

I wouldn't have any problem if every member posted a complaint about her. The issue is people like you who do it so frequently for so long. I don't know whether you are trying to offset the positive talk about her or just don't realize how often you rag on her. Maybe you think because you do good things here you are entitled to do whatever else you want but it just makes you a two face. It's love/hate with you, hardly any in between.

Originally Posted by Corsaire

I haven’t participated to this thread yet because I have discussed this issue in the past and I find that there is not much more I can contribute or learn.

Exactly. This is my issue with Scruffy and a couple others. It never ends with them. It makes me question their motives.

Originally Posted by Chuck

For YEARS, he says!

Well I said for at least a year. But I can go back further and it looks like that's what I'm gonna have to do. It's not nice, but sometimes it's necessary to clean things up. I've done it in other forums and it does work.

[Scruffydog777]

Originally Posted by HelixSix

Of course many people are gonna praise her but I don't see the ones who push it on everybody all the time or are in denial. If you can show me those people that would be nice. And once again if you think you are only criticizing her a "few" times you are wrong.

I wouldn't have any problem if every member posted a complaint about her. The issue is people like you who do it so frequently for so long. I don't know whether you are trying to offset the positive talk about her or just don't realize how often you rag on her. Maybe you think because you do good things here you are entitled to do whatever else you want but it just makes you a two face. It's love/hate with you, hardly any in between.



Exactly. This is my issue with Scruffy and a couple others. It never ends with them. It makes me question their motives.



Well I said for at least a year. But I can go back further and it looks like that's what I'm gonna have to do. It's not nice, but sometimes it's necessary to clean things up. I've done it in other forums and it does work.

The next time you choose to enter a thread, I suggest you read the title of the thread. The title of this one is "Alizée's career". Here is the Merriam-Webster defiinition of the word career.

a profession for which one trains and which is undertaken as a permanent calling

Her career started when she was discovered by MF and LB and it continues today. Discussions of her career include anything that relates to her career, good, bad or what ever.

Now sometimes with certain statements you'll see a little box at the end of it with a little number in it. That means there is a footnote at the bottom of the page, giving further details about the statement.

Here is the definition of footnote.
a note of reference, explanation, or comment usually placed below the text on a printed page .

There were no such notes. No one said please only make statements of a positive nature. Please don't mention anything you think might have been a mistake in her career. Pretend that you are in the Russia or China where free speech is surpressed and only say good things about the party, or in this case Alizee, and we'll get along just fine.

The MDO label was specificly created by others in this forum, so people could say what ever is on their mind. Now you're saying that's not the case?

Like I said, next time, read the title of the thread. You can start your own thread and state in your opening post, "Please don't make any posts that may be considered of a negative nature" or "No criticism of Alizee will be tolerated in this thread.", and I would respect that. But when there is a thread, specifically one that has the MDO label to it, have enough sense to realize there could be statements not of your liking.

[jung_adore_ALIZEE]

Originally Posted by HelixSix

Well I said for at least a year. But I can go back further and it looks like that's what I'm gonna have to do. It's not nice, but sometimes it's necessary to clean things up. I've done it in other forums and it does work.

I would say that is because her career has been going on the downward path for over a year. One could probably say it has been going downward for upwards of 6 years or so maybe longer. In a nut shell Psychedelices did fine as an album, not great not terrible. The tour for Psychedelices however was not so fine in that there were numerous canceled shows with almost no telling the fans what is up (and you can thank Mon Maquis for her saying anything about the one.) UEDS as an album I believe everyone can agree didn't do very well, and next to no performances.

Feel free to go back and dig up older and older posts all it shows is that she has been on this path for quite some time and she may want to take the next exit. She can do much better honestly. That will require a lot more effort on her part however, and I don't really see it happening.

Regards,

Jung

[lefty12357]

You are missing the point of this thread, which is labeled [MDO]. The purpose of this is that it was more or less a trial run of a thread for Mature Discussion Only, which allowed people to voice their honest opinions on a subject without the thread devolving into a fight between members. In other words, this thread is not about particular members, it is about Alizée's career and posts should only address her career, not forum members.

This has been working for quite a while now, but I see it's starting to veer off course. If we want to continue to have discussions like this, we must stay on topic. And that means no attacking others for their opinion in this thread. If you don't like the subject matter, leave the thread.

Some of the posts by Helixsix and related replies have been moved to Off-topic comments.

The thread is for discussion about Alizée and not about Scruffy.

[MarkL]

Originally Posted by jung_adore_ALIZEE

I would say that is because her career has been going on the downward path for over a year. One could probably say it has been going downward for upwards of 6 years or so maybe longer. In a nut shell Psychedelices did fine as an album, not great not terrible. The tour for Psychedelices however was not so fine in that there were numerous canceled shows with almost no telling the fans what is up (and you can thank Mon Maquis for her saying anything about the one.) UEDS as an album I believe everyone can agree didn't do very well, and next to no performances.

Feel free to go back and dig up older and older posts all it shows is that she has been on this path for quite some time and she may want to take the next exit. She can do much better honestly. That will require a lot more effort on her part however, and I don't really see it happening.

Regards,

Jung

Much as it pains me to say it, I kinda agree with most of it if she wants to come back she needs effort and lots of it. She had all the years before to do this, to do it now randomly seems strange because I dont think its what she wants.

Hurts to say it, but I still will ALWAYS ALWAYS have hope that shes gonna come out with something awesome tomorrow , just keep dreaming for the future is what I do!