Alizée's Last Name

[Twitch]

For the record I wasn't denying the benefits of marriage (legal, taxes, medical, whatever) with my it's just a piece of paper comment, I was just commenting that because of common law marriages, at least in most Canadian Provinces (Québec, because of traditionally strong influence on government from the church, has never recognized them as a marriage, but call them de facto unions) you can legally receive the same benefits without the need or expense of a marriage license and a ceremony with a judge/priest. So if you live together as a married couple would for a year in a conjugal relationship, you are automatically entitled to the benefits of marriage under federal law, but each province has little variations at the provincial level. And at the federal level these laws include same sex couples.

[Ben]

There is sometimes common law marriage here too, but it gets complicated and varies from state to state.

Originally Posted by RMJ

But it should not be. You or I or most of the people here and everywhere are not capable of making such decisions

Often when it becomes a question of ethics, though, doctors won't have a particular stance on what should be done. They can tell you the facts, but that doesn't always spell out the exact course of action. I don't know about Finland, but here a doctor is not your dictator. He tells you what options you have, and the pros and cons of each, and then its up to you to decide what to do.

This is especially important in cases of mental illness, another instance where this law comes into play. Treatment for these can often be as bad as the disease itself, and deciding what to do is not a question of right or wrong, but a question of lifestyle choice. If the person is too ill to decide for themselves, someone needs to be there who can legally speak for them.

[HibyPrime]

Originally Posted by DJ_Greg

Guess what: Do you speak a language? Do you wear clothes? Do you walk? Do you eat with a fork? Do you use the Internet? Do you brush your teeth? Do you stop at red lights and go when they turn green? Do you face forward in an elevator, or look slightly upward at the lighted numbers? Do you maintain a certain distance from other people when talking to them? Do you shake someone's hand when they extend it to you?

You "conform to society" in nearly EVERYTHING you do. You live in a society, and the vast majority of your behavior MUST conform to its norms. If you don't, you don't have much chance of survival. To be human is to be a part of society. It's really as simple as that.

I'm not a non-conformist, so I'm not too sure why you are telling me this.

Have you ever spoken to a non-conformist? They do not understand common sence, they don't care if their reasons are illogical, they just do it anyway. I'm not talking about emo people, emo people are just teenagers with a heavy case of angst and decide to label themselves as something.

[RMJ]

Originally Posted by Snatcher42

Often when it becomes a question of ethics, though, doctors won't have a particular stance on what should be done. They can tell you the facts, but that doesn't always spell out the exact course of action. I don't know about Finland, but here a doctor is not your dictator. He tells you what options you have, and the pros and cons of each, and then its up to you to decide what to do.

Not a dictator but person who you can rely your life on when you are not able to do the choices yourself. They has the most knowledge of the situation so they are the best to choose what to do.

Originally Posted by Snatcher42

This is especially important in cases of mental illness, another instance where this law comes into play. Treatment for these can often be as bad as the disease itself, and deciding what to do is not a question of right or wrong, but a question of lifestyle choice. If the person is too ill to decide for themselves, someone needs to be there who can legally speak for them.

Legally, here, anyone close to you can do that. If you are married (or officially couple without actually marrying) then it's your spouse, if you aren't then any close relative (mom, dad, child (above 18 of course), or basically anyone close blood relative), or if you don't have any of those then the doctors and social care or whatever does the choices.

So there always someone to choose anyways.

[Ben]

Originally Posted by RMJ

They has the most knowledge of the situation so they are the best to choose what to do.

When it comes to medicine, yes, but not ethics.

Originally Posted by RMJ

Legally, here, anyone close to you can do that. If you are married (or officially couple without actually marrying) then it's your spouse, if you aren't then any close relative (mom, dad, child (above 18 of course), or basically anyone close blood relative), or if you don't have any of those then the doctors and social care or whatever does the choices.

So there always someone to choose anyways.

Yeah, same here. But as you say, marriage changes who that person is. So it is pretty significant. It's important for establishing your own life. For example, now that my brother is married, his wife is the first person he will rely on and visa versa. No longer my parents. Since he's living far from home, it's important to have that close safety net. Especially once they have children. I think it's a big step in growing up. You can say you'll behave the same without the piece of paper, but then if anything serious comes up, suddenly that wont be recognized as legitimate anymore.

[HibyPrime]

Originally Posted by RMJ

Not a dictator but person who you can rely your life on when you are not able to do the choices yourself. They has the most knowledge of the situation so they are the best to choose what to do.

You have to remember that there are many, many different races, cultures and religions in the US. Each one has a different idea about what should be done in certain circumstances.

Keeping the person alive no matter what the consequences is not the first priority of many cultures and religions.

[DJ_Greg]

Originally Posted by HibyPrime

I'm not a non-conformist, so I'm not too sure why you are telling me this.

Have you ever spoken to a non-conformist? They do not understand common sence, they don't care if their reasons are illogical, they just do it anyway. I'm not talking about emo people, emo people are just teenagers with a heavy case of angst and decide to label themselves as something.

I'm trying to tell you that "non-conformists" don't exist. Or, if they do, you don't see them, because they've basically dropped out of civilization. You HAVE to conform if you want to exist in society. There are other words I might use to describe the people you're talking about...I personally wouldn't use "non-conformist," though.

[Ben]

Originally Posted by HibyPrime

You have to remember that there are many, many different races, cultures and religions in the US. Each one has a different idea about what should be done in certain circumstances.

Keeping the person alive no matter what the consequences is not the first priority of many cultures and religions.

That's a good point. Heck, some people do things that are downright unhealthy for religion, culture, or other belief. And within reason, we have to respect those decisions for them and their family (though we should of course educate them about the consequences).

[DJ_Greg]

Originally Posted by HibyPrime

You have to remember that there are many, many different races, cultures and religions in the US. Each one has a different idea about what should be done in certain circumstances.

Keeping the person alive no matter what the consequences is not the first priority of many cultures and religions.

There's a great book, written by Anne Fadiman (if I remember correctly), called The Spirit Catches You and You Fall Down, about a Hmong girl with epileptic seizures and the clash between her family, community, and Western medicine. It does a good job of illustrating what you're saying here.

[FanDeAliFee]

Permit me to bring the discussion back from various tangents, to the matter of surnames. The frequency and geography of both the names Jacotey and Chatelain are examined near the top of the page here: http://bellsouthpwp.net/d/o/docdtv/Alizee/2009Dec/

In the matter of names, what was finally decided? Does Alizée in fact have (albeit not use) a couple of middle names or not? If so, what are they?