[Discussion] 5th Album

[User22]

I can totally understand where you are coming from ScruffyDog. I was primarily on that side of the tatoo ordeal for quite a while. With all due respect and I'm not saying this in a mean way whatsoever, but your idea of beauty was born long before the idea of beauty of those that were born in the past 13 years. Sony has noticed this, Alizée has noticed this. You and I, whether we think of it conciously or not, have noticed this. The majority of songs downloaded are bought by, you guessed it, teenagers. Whether we like it or not, tatoos seem to be all the rage these days and is accepted regularly by the "teenage crowd" and even encouraged and praised. Maybe this was Alizée's plan this whole time, sacrifice an arm of beauty for 100,000 twitter followers who will most likely see her tweet in March with a link to iTunes to buy the album. I can't say there is a direct positive coorelation between her increase in tatoos and increase in Twitter followers, but I'm pretty positive the increase in "hip","up-to-date", and "semi-rebellious" pictures she has been posting on Twitter and Instagram have helped her reach the teenage crowd.

Sony and Alizée are smart for pushing their marketing of this "break-up" album. Its what goes on in everyone's lives and people can relate easily...ESPECIALLY teenagers.

If they just get one song...ONE song that has a "hip" ring to it and has to do with how hard love can be...then we may have ourselves a French radio-worthy song!

[Scruffydog777]

Well I'm sure your are saying she's getting the tatoos because it's trendy, it's the now thing and that's the direction she wants her career to go in and she thinks she will have success with it and I say no, she is not that business savvy in fact as far as the music industry is concerned, she has no business savvy at all. She is doing this strictly because it's what she wants to do and I don't necessarily blame her for that.

We still have no idea what the real Alizee is like, but we all have formulated our opinions from years of following her and this is my take on the story.
One thing I'd like to say first is I used to look upon her 2003 Stars a domicile appearence as something as far as the way she dressed in real life. The denim outfit with the beautiful printed shirt. I thought at the time and long afterward that was something she would have picked out. A very plain, but simple outfit and with her looks, such a great outfit, but upon further review, I think it was more likely an outfit that was chosen for her.

I've seen before the picture where she's wearing the pants that are pulled down low over her hips and the granny glasses and I quickly would leave that picture, I guess ignoring the fact that this might be the real Alizee. Now a few months back, someone posted a picture of her and it was apparently a picture of her probably at a rehearsal for one of her jam performances and it was kind of dark, but you could tell she had her pants pulled down in the same way and there is also a picture that someone, maybe RMJ took of her in Ajaccio in which she was dressed in a similar fashion.

So I'm afraid all those performances of the early years, the interviews, the award ceremonies, all showed us an Alizee that she really wasn't. She was a gangsta or maybe it's hip hop or maybe punk or some combination of all that. Then Jeremy came along and in fashion, he was exactly the same way. He was rebellious, something she loved. I think he was truely her soulmate.

Now I say she has no business savvy and I don't blame her for that. I thought if she really wanted to be a success in this business, after her divorce, she would have maybe finished high school then gone on to college to study the arts. Maybe she would've taken singing lessons, maybe learning another style, but she didn't do any of that and I think I know why.

Early on, she had a plan for life. She like most of us wanted to someday meet the mate of her dreams and raise a family with him. Now she was not much different than you and I until that day when MF and LB discovered her. In pursuing that dream of a happy family, she figured she'd go to college and I believe it was some form of engineering she planned on studying and after she got married, if it required, her and her husband to work, she would have happily followed that course. I'm sure if she had gone on to college, she would have applied herself as hard to those studies as she did to dancing and she would have graduated at or near the top of her class. She knew her strengths and she would have pursued them. There's no doubt in my mind about that. She knew what she was good at and she would have excelled.

But MF and LB did come along and threw her a tremendous curve ball. Her education suffered because of it. Then Jeremy came along and threw her an even a bigger curve ball. All those plans she had hoped for and been making for years were suddenly out the window.

She was thrust into stardom and she met the man of her dreams and it looked in her eyes that she was set for life. I think as much as she loved performing and loved being up on that stage, she now thought the perfect life would be to give it all up to be the devoted wife of Jeremy and the loving mother of their children and with the money she had already earned and the little amount of money she thought he would have to earn in a traditional role, he would be the breadwinner and she'd be the stay at home mom.

But that's not what Jeremy wanted. He married the hottest singer in Europe and when she gave up her career for him, he started to lose interest in her. The terrible tragedy of that is due to him, she left two hugely talented artists and has since found out, how hard it is to succeed on your own and she had no game plan for what has happened since. If MF and LB hadn't come along, she probably would have had a simple, but terribly happy life in Ajaccio and that is a tragedy. I often think Mylene probably thinks that she gave Alizee the chance of a lifetime, but in reality, I think she "may" have ruined what could have been a wonderul life for her.

I said I think she has no business savvy and I don't. I've always been good at math, trig, calculus, whatever. At work, I started a powerball pool a few weeks ago when it got up over 200 million dollars. I would accept 2, 5, 10, 20 dollars or whatever amount people offered. So many people asked me how I was going to figure out who won how much and that was so simple to me. If I collected 437 dollars for the pool and someone put in 2 dollars, then whatever percentage 2 was of 437, would be how much they won. It's not rocket science.

Years ago, I tried to learn about investing. I read several books on the subject, I went to Ameritrade where they let you participate in a vitual account where you invest on a pretend basis to see how you do. You learn about cups and saucers and profit margins and so much more and I tried very hard, but I just had no head for it and I think in the same way, Alizee does not have a head for the music business. She's the most incredibly beautiful performer I've seen in my life, but I think someone else needs to manage her career.

You said she's targetting the younger generation and you are probably right, but what they are following is a fad. It will pass and someday it will return and then again it will pass. But the beauty she had back in the early years was timeless, just as the Mona Lisa is timeless. People keep going to the Louvre to see the Mona Lisa year after year after year. Alizee's early videos will keep drawing fans, year after year. The ACDLA video we saw, will quickly fade into oblivion, and very quickly at that.

I think the terribly difficult part for me and others in here and AF who I have seen being critical of the tatoos is we don't really know where she stands on the subject. If she said her tatoos are very important to her, in fact more important to her than her career, that would be hard to understand, but at least we would know how she felt, or if she said she was trying to target a certain audience, we might think that's the wrong direction for her to go in, but again, at least we'd know where she stood, but in my case, I look upon it as she's damaging her love life of which she has none. She's damaging career, of which, only time can tell, what will be the results, and she's damaging those closest to her, again, something of which again, only time will tell.

I think she really needs to explain to many of her fans, who thought her tremendous natural beauty, seperated her so far and apart, from so many others, why that should no longer be a factor as to why they follow her.

[ALS]

The problem I see with Alizée is the immaturity that has taken over her life. Look at the kind of tattoos, the little dolls she buys, look at that last picture she posted of her Christmas Tree, see what is on the shelf ?

That is more the interest of a 6 to 10 year old girl, not a twenty eight year old mother. She had her whole life laid out for her in every detail from fifteen to nineteen years of age. Then decided she needed a change, dropping MF and LB, married Jeremy making her life even more complicated with her unplanned pregnancy. Since then it has been all down hill from her personal life as well as her professional career.

I just hope she wakes up sooner than later and decides to grow up, act like an adult and take her career seriously. She isn't stupid, she is just naive on what she has to do to turn her life around.

Scruffydog you're right, she is totally clueless on what is needed to be successful in the French Music Business. She would have never tattooed her arms up if she had any real knowledge of the industry and what it takes to protect your personal image to be successful.

Being pretty only goes so far when it comes to your music sales. Might work with a bunch of teenage boys not so well with twenty five to sixty year old adults. Sooner or later there has to be quality in the music you're releasing if you want to have any chance to be successful and popular again.

[pepelepew]

I agree with most of what you said Scruffy even though as you said, we have very little evidence of Alizee's true personality. I don't know if she lacks business sense or she is totally resistant to letting anyone else dictate the direction of her career or any other aspect of her life. There is evidence to my satisfaction that she is extremely strong willed and is not willing to be told what to do in her career or personal life ever again. Even when she is being impulsive, and I believe she is very impulsive, she doesn't do anything that she doesn't want to do. For instance the horrid tattoo's are exactly what she wants no matter what anyone else thinks or how it effects her career. I believe she loves performing, but only if she can do it on the cheap and has total control of every aspect of the content and truly likes it. She is simply riding what is left of the MF/LB success and will except the outcome whatever it brings her. I don't believe she gives a rats ass about her natural beauty and is not motivated to exploit it in her career or any where else for that matter. In that it proves to me she is a real down to earth person and a bit eccentric. I don't fault her in the least,and is a big part of what interested me in her in the beginning. Although the superficial pictures and activities of late are extremely boring. Where's the beef lol!

Edit:

Originally Posted by ALS

The problem I see with Alizée is the immaturity that has taken over her life. Look at the kind of tattoos, the little dolls she buys, look at that last picture she posted of her Christmas Tree, see what is on the shelf ?

That is more the interest of a 6 to 10 year old girl, not a twenty eight year old mother. She had her whole life laid out for her in every detail from fifteen to nineteen years of age. Then decided she needed a change, dropping MF and LB, married Jeremy making her life even more complicated with her unplanned pregnancy. Since then it has been all down hill from her personal life as well as her professional career.

I just hope she wakes up sooner than later and decides to grow up, act like an adult and take her career seriously. She isn't stupid, she is just naive on what she has to do to turn her life around.

Scruffydog you're right, she is totally clueless on what is needed to be successful in the French Music Business. She would have never tattooed her arms up if she had any real knowledge of the industry and what it takes to protect your personal image to be successful.

Being pretty only goes so far when it comes to your music sales. Might work with a bunch of teenage boys not so well with twenty five to sixty year old adults. Sooner or later there has to be quality in the music you're releasing if you want to have any chance to be successful and popular again.

The obvious immaturity is a direct bi product of MKULTRA monarch programming. Nothing more,nothing less. Forever young for sure. Just my honest opinion. I'm not willing to argue the point either way.

[ALS]

The immaturity with the tattoos, is the Sailorman, the kid playing with the pile of poop and Snow White with the AR15. I'll give her Tinkerbell as somewhat of a trademark of being Alizée. The wrist tattoo, and even Annili are not too bad. Although I could have sworn I saw that one color B/W Annili tattoo gain some color pigment in the last picture I saw of it.

[DrSmith]

Originally Posted by ALS

Although I could have sworn I saw that one color B/W Annili tattoo gain some color pigment in the last picture I saw of it.

If you're talking about this tattoo, it's always been in colour. It's just really dark.

[pepelepew]

Originally Posted by ALS

The immaturity with the tattoos, is the Sailorman, the kid playing with the pile of poop and Snow White with the AR15. I'll give her Tinkerbell as somewhat of a trademark of being Alizée. The wrist tattoo, and even Annili are not too bad. Although I could have sworn I saw that one color B/W Annili tattoo gain some color pigment in the last picture I saw of it.

Alizee has an over all childish demeanor, the tattoo's not withstanding. Although it is still charming, not in keeping with a 28 yr. old woman. She is stuck at age 15 or less. It goes way beyond not having a typical teenage growing up period loss. The tinkerbell tat symbolizes much more than a trademark. I really don't think Alizee wants everything that goes with being a pop music star. She made the best attempt that was possible in her last two albums to circumvent the music industry by producing them herself. It is a rigged game and it is evident through out the music industry here and abroad. Her collaboration with Sony is more of a surrender on her part as a last ditch effort to recreate some level of success, but I think there is evidence of pushback by her to not be controlled. I believe this is the misinterpreted sense by many fans that she is just not motivated. I don't know for sure what her level of motivation is, but there are just things she is un willing to do and the tats may be her fail safe rebellious attempt to protect herself from the industry along with really liking tattoo's out right.
For instance the skin to win game can no longer be played with the same vigor as before to exploit her natural sexuality in a superficial way with those over the top tats. Even if you like tats, hers are completely personal and outside of the mainstream. They are childish in nature and they won't even be able to pull off a bad girl image with those. Alizee may be sly like the fox that she is. This is mostly speculation on my part.

[Un-rêve]

Originally Posted by Scruffydog777

So I'm afraid all those performances of the early years, the interviews, the award ceremonies, all showed us an Alizee that she really wasn't. She was a gangsta or maybe it's hip hop or maybe punk or some combination of all that.

Well offcourse those outfits she wore in her performances and award ceremonies were not the kinda outfits she would wear everyday. Well she even mentioned that in certain magazine interviews in the past but she also mentioned how she loved to dress up in those kinda outfit's too! Nonetheless the clothes don't make the person anyway but if you seriously think they do there's no need to look any further than the photo's she has posted on her instagram over the last few months. There's many many different outfits to be seen there. Seriously though.. she likes all types of clothes and always has.. there have been many different types over the years ( not just the jeans and boxers lol ) but yeah she's always liked to wear sneakers and jeans anyway because they are comfortable.

Originally Posted by Scruffydog777

Then Jeremy came along and in fashion, he was exactly the same way. He was rebellious, something she loved. I think he was truely her soulmate.

Yeah I thought they were good together too, but for the record Alizée didn't actually start wearing those boxer shorts showing above her pants until she hooked up with him!

Originally Posted by ALS

The problem I see with Alizée is the immaturity that has taken over her life. Look at the kind of tattoos, the little dolls she buys, look at that last picture she posted of her Christmas Tree, see what is on the shelf ? That is more the interest of a 6 to 10 year old girl, not a twenty eight year old mother.

Well those are only a small part of her interests.. lol: I'm sure she has many other interests aswell.. but whats wrong with her liking those dolls and qee etc anyway? They are collectors items and many other women love those kinda things too ffs!

Originally Posted by pepelepew

I don't believe she gives a rats ass about her natural beauty and is not motivated to exploit it in her career or any where else for that matter. In that it proves to me she is a real down to earth person and a bit eccentric.

I agree with most of this, well apart from the "rats ass" bit.. I also agree with many other parts of this discussion but I don't feel the need to comment on them right now.. I'm just too tired.

[Rev]

I believe that the young stuff (dolls, etc.) is due to her daughter (who is 6-10). Family is very important to her, so ...

Also, the boxers look was driven by Jeremy (she was more than willing to go along, but the trend was set by him). Keep in mind that he was trying to set trends in clothing. It would be only natural for her to try to help by maintaining a "cool" image.

Everything else I have commented on in the past, so I will not repeat myself.

[Scruffydog777]

Some posts were moved from the 5th album news thread to the tatoo thread and rightfully so, because at the time we didn't really have a thread specifically for that album's discussion. Now the posts did involve tatoos, but it was more in reference to how it would affect performances and videos connected to it, so I will repost them here. I don't believe I have the power to move other member's posts, so I invite them, if they so desire to copy and paste them, themselves.

Edit:

Originally Posted by Scruffydog777

Well there is still tremendous potential there for beautiful music and beautiful videos. Look at her first 2 recent dj gigs. She showed up in basicly a printed t shirt for one and a sweatshirt for the other, but with her most recent dj appearence, she looked gorgeous.

I'm by no means saying it's over for her. She's still very beautiful when packaged the right way, but when she's not, she's not far from being plain Jane.

If you ever do a google search for "beautiful French singer", the hits are dominated by Alizee. Sometimes your searches for different things can be influenced by your previous searches, so I was curious to see if I'd get similar results doing the same on other computers. So on my most recent vacation, I stopped in internet cafes in Aachen and in Dubrovnik and in both cases, it was the same thing. The hits on my search were dominated by Alizee.

I think that is a huge testament to her beauty. There are plenty of other beautiful singers in France including Nolwenn, Jenifer, Lorie and Shy'm to name a few. It's huge and I doubt if she realizes it or appreciates it.

Her early performances are so memorable and a lot of that has to do with her beauty. Her beauty can still make her videos something to be remembered, again, if she is packaged right or they can be, just another video.

Originally Posted by Scruffydog777

Well I'm sure your are saying she's getting the tatoos because it's trendy, it's the now thing and that's the direction she wants her career to go in and she thinks she will have success with it and I say no, she is not that business savvy in fact as far as the music industry is concerned, she has no business savvy at all. She is doing this strictly because it's what she wants to do and I don't necessarily blame her for that.

We still have no idea what the real Alizee is like, but we all have formulated our opinions from years of following her and this is my take on the story.
One thing I'd like to say first is I used to look upon her 2003 Stars a domicile appearence as something as far as the way she dressed in real life. The denim outfit with the beautiful printed shirt. I thought at the time and long afterward that was something she would have picked out. A very plain, but simple outfit and with her looks, such a great outfit, but upon further review, I think it was more likely an outfit that was chosen for her.

I've seen before the picture where she's wearing the pants that are pulled down low over her hips and the granny glasses and I quickly would leave that picture, I guess ignoring the fact that this might be the real Alizee. Now a few months back, someone posted a picture of her and it was apparently a picture of her probably at a rehearsal for one of her jam performances and it was kind of dark, but you could tell she had her pants pulled down in the same way and there is also a picture that someone, maybe RMJ took of her in Ajaccio in which she was dressed in a similar fashion.

So I'm afraid all those performances of the early years, the interviews, the award ceremonies, all showed us an Alizee that she really wasn't. She was a gangsta or maybe it's hip hop or maybe punk or some combination of all that. Then Jeremy came along and in fashion, he was exactly the same way. He was rebellious, something she loved. I think he was truely her soulmate.

Now I say she has no business savvy and I don't blame her for that. I thought if she really wanted to be a success in this business, after her divorce, she would have maybe finished high school then gone on to college to study the arts. Maybe she would've taken singing lessons, maybe learning another style, but she didn't do any of that and I think I know why.

Early on, she had a plan for life. She like most of us wanted to someday meet the mate of her dreams and raise a family with him. Now she was not much different than you and I until that day when MF and LB discovered her. In pursuing that dream of a happy family, she figured she'd go to college and I believe it was some form of engineering she planned on studying and after she got married, if it required, her and her husband to work, she would have happily followed that course. I'm sure if she had gone on to college, she would have applied herself as hard to those studies as she did to dancing and she would have graduated at or near the top of her class. She knew her strengths and she would have pursued them. There's no doubt in my mind about that. She knew what she was good at and she would have excelled.

But MF and LB did come along and threw her a tremendous curve ball. Her education suffered because of it. Then Jeremy came along and threw her an even a bigger curve ball. All those plans she had hoped for and been making for years were suddenly out the window.

She was thrust into stardom and she met the man of her dreams and it looked in her eyes that she was set for life. I think as much as she loved performing and loved being up on that stage, she now thought the perfect life would be to give it all up to be the devoted wife of Jeremy and the loving mother of their children and with the money she had already earned and the little amount of money she thought he would have to earn in a traditional role, he would be the breadwinner and she'd be the stay at home mom.

But that's not what Jeremy wanted. He married the hottest singer in Europe and when she gave up her career for him, he started to lose interest in her. The terrible tragedy of that is due to him, she left two hugely talented artists and has since found out, how hard it is to succeed on your own and she had no game plan for what has happened since. If MF and LB hadn't come along, she probably would have had a simple, but terribly happy life in Ajaccio and that is a tragedy. I often think Mylene probably thinks that she gave Alizee the chance of a lifetime, but in reality, I think she "may" have ruined what could have been a wonderul life for her.

I said I think she has no business savvy and I don't. I've always been good at math, trig, calculus, whatever. At work, I started a powerball pool a few weeks ago when it got up over 200 million dollars. I would accept 2, 5, 10, 20 dollars or whatever amount people offered. So many people asked me how I was going to figure out who won how much and that was so simple to me. If I collected 437 dollars for the pool and someone put in 2 dollars, then whatever percentage 2 was of 437, would be how much they won. It's not rocket science.

Years ago, I tried to learn about investing. I read several books on the subject, I went to Ameritrade where they let you participate in a vitual account where you invest on a pretend basis to see how you do. You learn about cups and saucers and profit margins and so much more and I tried very hard, but I just had no head for it and I think in the same way, Alizee does not have a head for the music business. She's the most incredibly beautiful performer I've seen in my life, but I think someone else needs to manage her career.

You said she's targetting the younger generation and you are probably right, but what they are following is a fad. It will pass and someday it will return and then again it will pass. But the beauty she had back in the early years was timeless, just as the Mona Lisa is timeless. People keep going to the Louvre to see the Mona Lisa year after year after year. Alizee's early videos will keep drawing fans, year after year. The ACDLA video we saw, will quickly fade into oblivion, and very quickly at that.

I think the terribly difficult part for me and others in here and AF who I have seen being critical of the tatoos is we don't really know where she stands on the subject. If she said her tatoos are very important to her, in fact more important to her than her career, that would be hard to understand, but at least we would know how she felt, or if she said she was trying to target a certain audience, we might think that's the wrong direction for her to go in, but again, at least we'd know where she stood, but in my case, I look upon it as she's damaging her love life of which she has none. She's damaging career, of which, only time can tell, what will be the results, and she's damaging those closest to her, again, something of which again, only time will tell.

I think she really needs to explain to many of her fans, who thought her tremendous natural beauty, seperated her so far and apart, from so many others, why that should no longer be a factor as to why they follow her.

............................