Charice....A Case Study for Alizee.

[pepelepew]

Originally Posted by lefty12357

Jake, you make a lot of good points. I’d like to add the following. A lot of people through luck, being in the right place at the right time, or other means, have gotten their 15 minutes of fame in front of the world. Some of these people simply were different or had an appeal that captured the imagination of the public, at least for that 15 minutes. The ones that keep going usually have talent and skills to carry them through. They may also have some good marketing working on their behalf.

Charice is an incredible vocal talent. But she put in a lot of hours of practice and training, as well as many hours competing in singing contests. In Malcom Gladwell’s book, Outliers, he discusses some very interesting ideas about how people become so successful. He has something he calls the 10,000 hour rule which basically states that a person needs to put in around 10,000 hours of practice and/or experience at something in order to become an expert at it. Charice was probably well on her way to achieving that 10,000 hours by the time she was 15. I think this is the main lesson to learn from the Charice Case Study. Like you said, “be patient (It took them years to accomplish this)”. Yes, it did take years. Years filled with practice, experience and hard work.

Now consider Alizée. She got her 15 minutes of fame which hooked her up with MF/LB at the age of 15. She may have had a lot of hours under her belt as a dancer, but she was just getting into singing. She was fortunate that her first single was a huge hit and she was able to continue her career for 3 or 4 more years. Mylene had her practice everyday to prepare for her concert tour in 2003-2004. But after a career of 10 years, how many hours has Alizée actually sung or worked on singing? Almost all her TV performances were lip-synced because that’s the way it’s done in her country. Then there was her long break. I just think Alizée has not put in nearly as many hours perfecting her craft as many of her extremely successful peers have.

I think one of the most important things Mylene did for Alizée was to provide a practice regimen. I’m not sure that Alizée has that now. I wouldn’t be surprised if she goes days or even weeks at a time without a real singing workout. Alizée has the raw talent, but I believe she is still somewhat in the development stage as an artist. I only wish she would intensify her efforts. Having said that, I’ve always liked the sound of her voice and I’ve always liked her music. But I think she can take it to another level if she wants to. And the important point here is that it is up to Alizée, and no one else. It’s obviously her choice.

We can talk about clothing and hair styles, dancing, marketing and promotion, choice of music and arrangements, fan promotion and fan relations. These are all important. But in my opinion, the underlying fact of vocal practice and experience may be the most important over the long term. Of all the musicians and singers I've known over the years, the better ones are almost always the ones who simply play and practice more.

For those who haven’t seen it, here is Charice at the age of 15 on Oprah. Sorry for the poor quality.

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Great points Lefty. I have really enjoyed this thread and posts. I wish Alizee would make some low budget video's of all of her Ueds songs for posting on the net. It would not only give her great exposure on it's face, but great material for fans to use as promotions here as well as other places around the globe. Alizee is smart and net savvy. I think she is just the worst at self promotion or there is another reason or reasons her fans are not aware of that lends to her obvious promotional flaws. That being said, I am impressed with the tenacity and optimism of the fans here and elsewhere that work tirelessly on promoting Alizee even though she gives little info. regarding her present and future career goals and has not responded to AA's support letter for promotion in the U.S.A. It is definitely not out of the realm of possibility that she could be noticed or become an internet success and alternately becoming popular here. That is still my hope and I would be hopeful if I knew she shared that desire.

[Tchaikovsky]

Originally Posted by pepelepew

Great points Lefty. I have really enjoyed this thread and posts. I wish Alizee would make some low budget video's of all of her Ueds songs for posting on the net. It would not only give her great exposure on it's face, but great material for fans to use as promotions here as well as other places around the globe. Alizee is smart and net savvy. I think she is just the worst at self promotion or there is another reason or reasons her fans are not aware of that lends to her obvious promotional flaws. That being said, I am impressed with the tenacity and optimism of the fans here and elsewhere that work tirelessly on promoting Alizee even though she gives little info. regarding her present and future career goals and has not responded to AA's support letter for promotion in the U.S.A. It is definitely not out of the realm of possibility that she could be noticed or become an internet success and alternately becoming popular here. That is still my hope and I would be hopeful if I knew she shared that desire.

I approve this post.

[Jake04]

Originally Posted by lefty12357

Jake, I think your points are well taken, however I respectfully disagree with your math on the one point. Alizée even said that she did 2 hours a day (under Mylene) of exercise, dancing and singing in preparation for her En Concert tour. I think 3 hours a day, every day for 10 years is overestimated by quite a bit. When Psych came out, she seemed unprepared to sing live. I think she prepared better for the UEdS release party. It will be interesting to see what she'll do next. I think everyone is waiting, and hoping.

And thank you for your comments on the birthday song. But I'd also like to point out that a number of members here contributed their voices to the chorus. I think they showed a lot of courage and dedication. Their participation really made it special.

Lefty, you are right. I stand corrected. I didn't know Alizee said that herself. I just based my numbers on the fact that she quit school in order to concentrate on her career. I thought she would dedicate more hours than that. But, then again, I just now realized that it may be not that easy to sing for hours everyday.

I'm sorry if I forgot to thank the following: Acadieman, Ben, FireCanine, Jep, Ruroshen, Toc De Mac, & Tomtentp

You're all great!!! I wish I discovered that song on or before Alizee's birthday. I've listened to it for several times now. It still gives me goosebumps every time I listen to it. There is hope as long as we have dedicated fans like you!

[BlackAnthem]

Originally Posted by Jake04

You're exactly the type of people I'm talking about who neither have the optimism, passion, faith and the drive to make things happen. Just keep watching on the sideline.

Pssh! Your pretty new here aren't you? You should check out all the projects we did before all you Une Enfant Du Siècle Era fans came along. We wrote letters, requested Pandora and iTunes, made remixes, design posters, gave out flyers, painted our cars, posted links, distributed cd's, composed birthday songs, ETC!

In addition to me living in the number one city for most Alizee look-ups in the world, I contacted the record label and the French Embassy in New York and Washington DC to see what it would take to have her perform here. I even sent letters to local venues for her to come.

So, sidelines my ass.

How'd ya like THEM apples?

[Jake04]

Originally Posted by BlackAnthem

Pssh! Your pretty new here aren't you? You should check out all the projects we did before all you Une Enfant Du Siècle Era fans came along. We wrote letters, requested Pandora and iTunes, made remixes, design posters, gave out flyers, painted our cars, posted links, distributed cd's, composed birthday songs, ETC!

In addition to me living in the number one city for most Alizee look-ups in the world, I contacted the record label and the French Embassy in New York and Washington DC to see what it would take to have her perform here. I even sent letters to local venues for her to come.

So, sidelines my ass.

How'd ya like THEM apples?

Had you presented your argument in a constructive way, then I would have been more respectful. It's okay to criticize, but let's do it in a constructive way. Instead, you quickly dismissed my idea like it's non-sense. You are like one of those bosses that everyone hates to work for because they think they know all the answers and wouldn't even listen to their employees.

I was offering a new idea, idea that worked for an anonymous singer from a third world country whose accomplishment at her own country or anywhere else prior to this, pale in comparison to that of Alizee's. If you compare their resumes side-by-side, it's not even close. And we're just talking about the accomplishments here (awards, record sales, etc). We are not even talking about their INTANGIBLES (popularity, name-recognition, looks, dancing ability, etc).

And that's what I'm trying to present to all: What are we doing wrong? Logic would tell you that it would have been a lot easier to promote here someone from a Western country like Alizee, given her talents, proven record sales around the world, popularity, etc.

There's a lot of people here that I respect and whose opinions I value. People like Scruffy, Lefty, Doc, Ben, C-4, MYGOGT and some others whose works, tireless efforts and well-intentioned opinions have made this site worth coming back to. Given your prior work, if true, would have earned you my respect easily as well. Unfortunately, you decided to present your opinion in a dismissive way. And now, not only did you insult me, you also insulted all the other recent and new fans here. WAY TO GO!!!

[Tomtentp]

Hehe, always amusing to watch a completly unneccesary fight arise from simple missunderstanding, a negative tone and swift judgement.
Deja Vu all over it!


Anyways, I don't think you can compare the cases as easily.
Charice have a great voice.
In her case that's what you need to market and that's what you need to concentrate on, which means anything where she sings (well) is a good promotion.
With Alizée it's complicated.
There are so many talents that needs to be marketed, she even have two different eras/avatars!
What to concentrate on??



If we want to say that Alizée as a whole package is what needs to be marketed then virtually any video, performance, appearance or anything at all considering Alizée is a good promotion, right?



If it's just Alizée the musician we need to market then we need to concentrate on new era Alizée since Laurant isn't her producer anymore and lolita isn't gonna be there when people look her up.






However, I don't think that the question is about how to promote her.
The question is if she even want to be world famous in such a degree and such a "way" that we suggests.

Maybe it's even so that she prefers to have fans of Alizée the musician rather than fans of Alizée the Lolita. That's the idea I get from her statements anyways.

So, who are we doing the promotion for?
Us or her?

[BlackAnthem]

Originally Posted by Jake04

Had you presented your argument in a constructive way, then I would have been more respectful. It's okay to criticize, but let's do it in a constructive way. Instead, you quickly dismissed my idea like it's non-sense. You are like one of those bosses that everyone hates to work for because they think they know all the answers and wouldn't even listen to their employees.

I was offering a new idea, idea that worked for an anonymous singer from a third world country whose accomplishment at her own country or anywhere else prior to this, pale in comparison to that of Alizee's. If you compare their resumes side-by-side, it's not even close. And we're just talking about the accomplishments here (awards, record sales, etc). We are not even talking about their INTANGIBLES (popularity, name-recognition, looks, dancing ability, etc).

And that's what I'm trying to present to all: What are we doing wrong? Logic would tell you that it would have been a lot easier to promote here someone from a Western country like Alizee, given her talents, proven record sales around the world, popularity, etc.

There's a lot of people here that I respect and whose opinions I value. People like Scruffy, Lefty, Doc, Ben, C-4, MYGOGT and some others whose works, tireless efforts and well-intentioned opinions have made this site worth coming back to. Given your prior work, if true, would have earned you my respect easily as well. Unfortunately, you decided to present your opinion in a dismissive way. And now, not only did you insult me, you also insulted all the other recent and new fans here. WAY TO GO!!!

Mm-Hm. Well, calmly allow me to explain myself:

I the past we have taken a look at many other foreign singers (Nelly Furtado to be exact, with others included) who had caused a stir in America and their original country. Coming out of all studies with no new ideas I thought I would put this down before it got too far. My apologies to you and others I offended.

(Just got a notification. Bomb threat in PARIS, FRANCE EIFFEL TOWER: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/39177318/?GT1=43001)

Anyway: They are true. If you ask around and get a feel for the other projects we have undertaken you would have understood my statement. So in conclusion:

Sorry if that came over wrongly, I hope we can get past this minor set back. After all, we all want the same thing here.

Last comment: For constructive criticism, although she may have been not so popular in her country, Alizee is.

You said: "What are we doing wrong? Logic would tell you that it would have been a lot easier to promote here someone from a Western country like Alizee, given her talents, proven record sales around the world, popularity, etc."

Clearly that is not the case, for now we have Charice in America and Alizee isn't.

Being the mean boss: What I want to know is what action you will take you put your idea to the test. Answer that with a REAL ACHIEVABLE ANSWER, and we will follow you every step of the way.

[Jake04]

Originally Posted by BlackAnthem

Mm-Hm. Well, calmly allow me to explain myself:

I the past we have taken a look at many other foreign singers (Nelly Furtado to be exact, with others included) who had caused a stir in America and their original country. Coming out of all studies with no new ideas I thought I would put this down before it got too far. My apologies to you and others I offended.

(Just got a notification. Bomb threat in PARIS, FRANCE EIFFEL TOWER: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/39177318/?GT1=43001)

Anyway: They are true. If you ask around and get a feel for the other projects we have undertaken you would have understood my statement. So in conclusion:

Sorry if that came over wrongly, I hope we can get past this minor set back. After all, we all want the same thing here.

Last comment: For constructive criticism, although she may have been not so popular in her country, Alizee is.

You said: "What are we doing wrong? Logic would tell you that it would have been a lot easier to promote here someone from a Western country like Alizee, given her talents, proven record sales around the world, popularity, etc."

Clearly that is not the case, for now we have Charice in America and Alizee isn't.

Being the mean boss: What I want to know is what action you will take you put your idea to the test. Answer that with a REAL ACHIEVABLE ANSWER, and we will follow you every step of the way.

No worries. It happens. Like you said, we all have the same goal here -that is, to see Alizee become successful so we can enjoy her beautiful music for a long time. We just have different ideas on how to achieve that goal.

Let me apologize to you as well if I snapped back at you. And thanks for the info about the Eiffel Tower.

[Tchaikovsky]

Originally Posted by Jake04

No worries. It happens. Like you said, we all have the same goal here -that is, to see Alizee become successful so we can enjoy her beautiful music for a long time. We just have different ideas on how to achieve that goal.

Let me apologize to you as well if I snapped back at you. And thanks for the info about the Eiffel Tower.

Awwwwwwwww

[Zeerre]

Originally Posted by Tchaikovsky

Awwwwwwwww

I expected more from you, maybe some kind of picture to go along with the "Awwwwwwwww."
I'm disappointed.