AJ wishes to work with MF again

[Euphoria]

You guys are making my inner feminist twitch. What bothers me is that you guys wouldn't mind seeing her naked on YOUR terms.

[Lili4ever]

wel, tbh those terms are quite modest and well wishing

[pepelepew]

Originally Posted by Euphoria

You guys are making my inner feminist twitch. What bothers me is that you guys wouldn't mind seeing her naked on YOUR terms.

They get naked on their terms, so how is that any different than anyone elses terms? Besides despite what feminists espouse, men and women are wired different and the sexes will never be able to completely understand the other on any level.

[Fall]

Originally Posted by Euphoria

You guys are making my inner feminist twitch. What bothers me is that you guys wouldn't mind seeing her naked on YOUR terms.

Even if you put that way, they are after all, OUR terms yes? Why would we not want it that way?

Also, you're reacting like a kid, going "eww eww eww eww." It's as if you think we're going to declare war on Alizée if she doesn't go along with what we say. At the end of the day she always does what SHE wants, and while we may complain, what difference will it really make? Whatever she does, she may lose a few fans but she'll also gain new ones. Take me for example. A lot of people didn't like Psych so they chips and dipped. Me, I came along long after Psych but a year before UEDS. Psych became my favorite album, and I've stuck around. So if she were to go butt nekkid on a simple music video (such as the one lapinschous posted) I wouldn't be all too pleased, but I wouldn't leave. Even if I left, there are other people who like that sort of thing. Mat said it wouldn't bother him, a few posts ago. In my own post, I said the only way I'd wanna see her like that would be if it were just me and her (not through a keyhole ...Lili4ever ) But because that kind of thing is highly unlikely, as well as something I'm not actively striving towards, I hope that she only undresses at home, for a shower, for her partner, whatever.



Edit -
Another thing I'd like to add, if I had been in line with Scruffy, Jake and Ray, I would probably have been kinda terrified, so it it were just me and Alizée I don't know what I'd do. So maybe, even then I would prefer a nice chat, rather than have a heart attack at 21 xD

[DrSmith]

Originally Posted by Fall06

I hope that she only undresses at home, for a shower, for her partner, whatever

…because if she did decide to go nude for a photoshoot or something, that would make her a worse person? It would decrease her value in some way?

Postin' this link because I agree with pretty much everything this lady has to say : http://jezebel.com/5966651/hey-girls...ty-is-bullshit

« The problem is the implication that there's a "right" way to be a woman, and that men—anonymous, strange men on the internet, no less—have some say in what that "right" way looks like. And I'm very sorry, "Guys," but my only "womanly duty" is to myself. »

Originally Posted by Fall06

Even if you put that way, they are after all, OUR terms yes? Why would we not want it that way?

Also, you're reacting like a kid, going "eww eww eww eww." It's as if you think we're going to declare war on Alizée if she doesn't go along with what we say. At the end of the day she always does what SHE wants, and while we may complain, what difference will it really make?

A very important difference. You should have no cause to complain when she does what she wants to do. This isn't just about Alizée doing something you don't like, it's about many people who carry this misogynistic and oppressive attitude that is a taint on society. If a woman showing off her body lessens her value in your mind, you need to change. It shouldn't bother you if a woman wants to dress in very revealing clothing or be nude in a movie or a magazine or anywhere else. There's nothing wrong with that. The former president of France and his beautiful wife agree with me.*

*Warning : link leads to a photo of an unclothed woman


I'm not saying that this attitude applies 100% to everyone who's commented on the last couple pages, but it probably applies a little bit to almost everyone. (I probably even lost Euphoria at some point—I know she doesn't like nipples.) It's the little remnants of the past—when society was much more oppressive to women, if you can imagine—that are so embedded in everyone's mind that cause you to look down on someone who would dare show off her body and be proud of her sexuality, rather than dressing like the women on Turner Classic Movies… who, by the way, didn't have much choice in how they dressed…


That may have gone a bit off topic, but I wouldn't be doing my job if I didn't hit 'Submit Reply' right now.

[Euphoria]

No, I agree with you DrSmith. That's the exact point I was trying to make. Nipples don't bother me per se, but women in America don't really go braless, so I was curious if it's common in France. I don't think it's wrong, and I don't think I have any right to tell a woman what to do with her body and what she should/shouldn't show.

I dunno, I shouldn't have said anything. My point was that a man who is attracted to a woman would like to see her nude, and has thought about it. It's not wrong, it's nature. I was just poking fun, but the replies bothered me.

[Fall]

Well since you quoted my post specifically I take it that you are really only talking to me. Correct me if I'm wrong but I don't think I ever said that it would "make her a worse person, or that it would decrease her value in some way"... in any way shape or form. I just said I'd prefer she keep her clothes on.

I'm a horrible example giver but here goes: Say you are a friend of mine from school, and you come to my house on my birthday, wearing a shirt that says "Michael Jackson is gay." (*In the sense where you use the word "gay" offensively, not meaning homosexual. Women he worked with can attest to his preferences ) Needless to say, I wouldn't like that. I wouldn't make judgements about your value as a person either. I would say that there are perhaps other sitiuations where I'd be (more or less) ok with you wearing that, like if you were a comedian doing an offensive comedy stand up show. I would rather you wear something else, but whatever.

You quoted me again, saying that I need to change if I think a woman's value lessens if she shows off her body. Well that's only true to a point, I can't say that I don't like the way she looks in the JPVA dress. But I think it would be a bit inappropriate if she wore something like that to the funeral she went to recently. All in all, what I'm saying is that there's a time and a place to show off your body. All this started from saying whether or not we'd be ok with her going in the direction of that MF music video. It must work for MF, it does, I'm sure. As for me, nudity in a music video isn't my thing. Lisa Marie Presley was (almost) naked in MJ's You Are Not Alone music video, I don't watch it often.

[babyblue558]

Originally Posted by lapinschous

Here's what they would have done with her image, as to whether or not we would have approved, I let you guys answer...

I think when combined with the lyrics of the song ('Love is nothing') this video is meant to be ironic, not just meaningless nudity as it may at first appear.

Edit:

Also Mylène and Alizée are two completely different people. I think it is also silly to assume Mylène would've tried to turn Alizée into a carbon copy of herself if they had continued to work together.

[Euphoria]

Originally Posted by babyblue558

I think when combined with the lyrics of the song ('Love is nothing') this video is meant to be ironic, not just meaningless nudity as it may at first appear.

Edit:

Also Mylène and Alizée are two completely different people. I think it is also silly to assume Mylène would've tried to turn Alizée into a carbon copy of herself if they had continued to work together.

Agreed also. It's not like Alizee was her slave, either. I'm sure she enjoyed playing a sexy tease at first, but a lot of women grow out of that.

[DrSmith]

Originally Posted by Fall06

Well since you quoted my post specifically I take it that you are really only talking to me. Correct me if I'm wrong but I don't think I ever said that it would "make her a worse person, or that it would decrease her value in some way"... in any way shape or form. I just said I'd prefer she keep her clothes on.

You didn't say that, which is why I posed it as a question or a suggestion that maybe that's the way you feel and you don't even realise it. Could be something to think about. If you have a strong preference for "modest" attire in women, there may be some misguided reasoning behind it and a very damaging side-effect, i.e. "slut-shaming."

It's okay if you prefer women who keep themselves covered up, it's the condemnation of the opposite that is a problem.

And I wasn't just talking to you. I was responding to fragments of different posts, and maybe taking it to a place that nobody was even discussing. But I think the unwritten law is "you're allowed to go off-topic as long as you acknowledge you are," right?