Alizee's Stalingrad!..Has the clock stopped ticking?

[Deepwaters]

Originally Posted by Scruffydog777

I didn't enjoy being critical of her. I wanted her comeback to be a great success. I was one of the few who apparently saw what was coming down the road.

And just what is it that you say you foresaw? She has, so far, had a modest success with her new album, a tremendously successful concert tour in Mexico, and a canceled concert in France -- the last being the only indication of failure, and it's by no means a final indication. Once she recovers from whatever personal disaster is causing this meltdown, she'll have a chance to pull things together again career-wise.

Constructive criticism? The only suggestion I've seen from you is that she return to working with Mylène and Laurent, which isn't going to happen. If you really want to provide constructive criticism, then stay within the bounds of possibility and suggest ways in which future efforts can be improved. If there is nothing you can say except "go back to M&L," then you might as well say nothing, because you're certainly saying nothing useful.

And that being the case, frankly I doubt the motivations you say you have.

Now, you want some constructive criticism? At this point, I believe I can say two things.

Un -- Alizée, pour ton prochain album, tu dois choisir juste un thème et type de la musique, pas un assortiment comme Psychédélices. Le problem avec un assortiment est qu'il est un peu apprécié par beaucoup des gens, mais aimé par aucun. (For your next album, you should choose a single theme and type of music, not an assortment like Psychédélices. The problem with an assortment is that it is somewhat appreciated by many people, but loved by none.)

Deux -- Je pense que tu dois communiquer mieux avec tes fans. Je pense que je comprends pourquoi tu es muet en ce moment, et c'est vrais que quelques choses sont privé, mais c'est vrais aussi, je pense, que les dommages de ce incident sont grave. (I think you need to communicate better with your fans. I think I understand why you are silent at the moment, and it's true that some things are private, but it's also true, I think, that the damage from this incident is serious.)

There, two things she could do, unlike the suggestion to go back to M&L, which as I said is not going to happen -- nor do I believe it's necessary. And it certainly is NOT constructive to suggest it.

[Bigdan]

Let's be realistic. She's only 24.

At this age, Mylène was just begining, just trying to be a star and had still a year to wait to know real success.



(Mylene at 24)

[Tomtentp]

Originally Posted by Rocket

Instead of a new album maybe she should write a book. I would love to read something like that. I'll bet it would be a best seller in all of the European countries. She could talk about how she started, how she met Mylene, how she felt about winning her awards and so on.

Yes I would love to read such a book, but not just yet. Why? Because her journey is far from over. When the full picture is drawn, when her recovery and future success is realized, then is the time to write this book. And this book will be quite a story, a story worth remembering, a fairytale realized.

//Signed the cheese cake

[edgar93]

Originally Posted by Bigdan

Let's be realistic. She's only 24.

At this age, Mylène was just begining, just trying to be a star and had still a year to wait to know real success.



(Mylene at 24)

And Madonna too. By the way, madonna was here in toronto today, and yesterday I was wondering, if Alizee had came to the MTVla awards, she was going to the concert. But I didnt go, I prefered to go watching a soccer match (toronto 3-2 Chicago )

[Scruffydog777]

Originally Posted by HelixSix

To be honest I think he enjoys being overly critical of Alizée, even considering that she might not have much control over what is going on.

You say I've been overly critical. The harshest thing I've said about her was after the Moscow concert, she looked like a housewife and she sounded like a housewife and I'll stand by those two statements. The dresses she wore on stage looked like Wal-mart specials. She curled her hair which in my opinion was not near as beautiful as when it was straight. The ironic part is she has looked far, far better in her off stage appearances than she has on stage.

I said she sounded like a housewife. MF and LB knew her voice had limitations. They knew certain songs she sang should be enhanced in a sound studio then lip-synced on stage. They knew what songs she should be singing and what songs she shouldn't be singing. Who ever is managing her now doesn't have a clue.

If this is Alizée bashing, then I'll continue to bash away because this is how I honestly feel about her performances.

When anyone in here has anything critical about the way she appears on stage. The order of the rose colored glasses comes out and accuses them of wanting to see her in the Moi Lolita outfit, where the cheeks of her butt are hanging out, or the Gourmandises outfit with the little peekaboo holes in it or the panty exposing J'ai pas vingt ans dress. In the majority of cases they're dead wrong but you cant tell them that. To say anything against her, to them
is a cardinal sin.

I keep saying I want her do whatever makes her happy. Don't change a thing if she likes the way things are going. Retire and have a baby if that suits her, but I think she wants to have a lot more success and if she does, she'll have to make changes. But the order of the rose colored glasses don't listen. They keep putting words in my mouth. They keep saying over and over I'm trying to change her to the way I want her to appear. They hear what they want to hear.

They say she is happy just doing her own thing. Happy? She sold out 6 shows at the Olympia in 1 week back in 2003. She performed roughly 22 concerts in about a 2 month period back then and I bet everyone of them was jam packed. Now she can't fill up one theater in Paris! The French are a very proud people so I'm sure she must feel totally humiliated right now, and people here say she's happy. Unbelievable!

Some people say she can go back to Mexico where she had such great success. The main reason she did so well there, was because the Mexican people, like a lot of people in this forum only found out about her in the past 2 years. They fell in love with the Alizée of the 1999 to 2003 era. She has numerous loving fans there now. But if she goes back with the same quality of a show as her first Mexican tour, she will have far less success than the first tour. I was right about Stalingrad and you can bet your money, I'll be right about this.

Getting back to Stalingrad, say what you want about me and my posts but in my Stalingrad post back in May, I was right!. I hit the nail right on the head. Her career is in trouble right now and I doubt if even the order of the rose colored glasses can save her.

Originally Posted by HelixSix

The last few months were great, as we had a break from his negative posting.

There wasn't anything negative in this thread until you showed up!

[mavsluver41]

@Scuffydog777

I think its beneficial to offer constructive criticism about her performances and career (as Deepwaters, RMJ, and others have on many occasions), but it is equally important to appreciate and focus on the good aspects of these same performances as well. I think focusing too much on the former and furiously unleashing streams of criticism, well-intentioned as it may be, makes one come across as pessimistic, over-critical, and generally negative.

I respect your opinions, but respectfully disagree with many of them:

Originally Posted by Scruffydog777

To say anything against her, to them is a cardinal sin.

Following the Moscow concert, there was nearly unanimous disapproval of her languor while performing. People across the boards hoped she'd shed the high heels and inject some vigor into the next concert (and she did). No one then, or now, is accusing anyone of wanting her to embrace her own sex-appeal again.

Originally Posted by Scruffydog777

I keep saying I want her do whatever makes her happy.

Originally Posted by Scruffydog777

she looked like a housewife and she sounded like a housewife and I'll stand by those two statements. The dresses she wore on stage looked like Wal-mart specials. She curled her hair which in my opinion was not near as beautiful as when it was straight.

And what if she likes looking and singing like a housewife? You can't claim to respect her interests and then turn around and bash those very interests with your own opinions.

Originally Posted by Scruffydog777

The French are a very proud people so I'm sure she must feel totally humiliated right now, and people here say she's happy. Unbelievable!

Who is saying that she's happy? I think its very plain to see that there is something ailing her: she has not been herself lately. I don't know how you can insinuate that people are saying she's happy with all the speculation and sadness around the forums.

Originally Posted by Scruffydog777

They fell in love with the Alizée of the 1999 to 2003 era. She has numerous loving fans there now. But if she goes back with the same quality of a show as her first Mexican tour, she will have far less success than the first tour.

Can't say I agree. From what Roman, RMJ, and others who attended the Mexican concerts have written, the tour was largely a success and contained many trademark Lili moments. You speak of Alizée's career as if it were three separate books, rather than three chapters of the same one. If fans fell in love with the Alizée of the 1999 to 2003, they will not be put off by the current Alizée: the beauty is there, the personality is there, there's just more maturity, more clothing (), and more freedom of expression. If the quality of her music had declined significantly from her earlier days, I would have agreed that she would have less success, but in my humble opinion, this is not the case. Thus I disagree.

Originally Posted by Scruffydog777

I was right about Stalingrad and you can bet your money, I'll be right about this.

Getting back to Stalingrad, say what you want about me and my posts but in my Stalingrad post back in May, I was right!. I hit the nail right on the head.

Here's what I think is irritating people. I don't think the times are conducive to an "I-told-you-so" thread such as this one.

[Rev]

Originally Posted by Scruffydog777

MF and LB knew her voice had limitations. They knew certain songs she sang should be enhanced in a sound studio then lip-synced on stage. They knew what songs she should be singing and what songs she shouldn't be singing.

Everyone has limitations. Part of good management is to really figure them out and advise the artist so they can always be their best.

They say she is happy just doing her own thing. Happy? She sold out 6 shows at the Olympia in 1 week back in 2003. She performed roughly 22 concerts in about a 2 month period back then and I bet everyone of them was jam packed. Now she can't fill up one theater in Paris! The French are a very proud people so I'm sure she must feel totally humiliated right now, and people here say she's happy. Unbelievable!

Although not all were jam packed (several were less than half full), she has to feel bad about the difference in response.

Originally Posted by mavsluver41

Who is saying that she's happy? I think its very plain to see that there is something ailing her: she has not been herself lately.

Very true. Her recent response (or lack thereof) is sufficiently out of character that she MUST be going through a difficult time.

We need to cut her a break and (here goes the 60's terms) send her a huge amout of good vibes - and love (lots of love).

[Scruffydog777]

Originally Posted by mavsluver41

@Scuffydog777


And what if she likes looking and singing like a housewife? You can't claim to respect her interests and then turn around and bash those very interests with your own opinions.

I don't know how many times I've stated in this thread how I felt about that and people keep misinterpreting it. Yes I thought she looked and sounded like a housewife but if she was happy with that, then she shouldn't change a thing. Yes I would have liked to see her change for what I preferred but the reason I started the thread was because I felt she had to change to have a successful comeback.

Originally Posted by mavsluver41

Who is saying that she's happy?

Here is a segment from an earlier post in this thread "Alizée will live happily with plenty of cash until she decides to put out another record"

I don't think she's very happy right now.

Originally Posted by mavsluver41

Can't say I agree. From what Roman, RMJ, and others who attended the Mexican concerts have written, the tour was largely a success and contained many trademark Lili moments. Thus I disagree.

I'm sure it was one of these gentlemen who said I believe it was about the Guadalajara concert. " The place had a lot of empty seats which only filled up in the last couple of hours " which could be of maybe no significance or possibly some significance but I also remember them saying about the crowd something to the point that they weren't into the show so to hell with them which I think was significant.

Originally Posted by mavsluver41

Here's what I think is irritating people. I don't think the times are conducive to an "I-told-you-so" thread such as this one.

If you read my opening thread, you'll see there is no semblance of me saying I told you so. I had no intention of saying that. It's only after Helix showed up and added his 2 cents worth that I felt compelled to say it.
[/QUOTE]

[Tomtentp]

Ok, you have forseen your doomsday scruffy, and some have shown their disagreence, let's drop it now. What you guys are doing right now is accusing eachother for random stuff, there is no value in your words. This is just a spinning wheel of hatred going around and around sucking everyones time and energy without any hope of a positive outcome.

Don't fuel the fire.

[TheBarrett]

These long reply-quote-disagree posts are really tiring to read and revise for me.
You're all just working me to extinction aren't you?

Here are the points:
-We are happy that she has taken her own artistic direction
-We agree that Psych hasn't done amazing, but some of us respect it in our own way.
-We agree that if she wants success, she has to go a bit mainstream, that's universal...
-We want her to be happy with who she is, but we can't help asking her to make us happy as well.
-We need to find a median, where she and us can have our own level of satisfaction.