Was the JPVA Alizée the Tinker Bell? - Page 5

FanDeAliFee · #41 02-28-2011, 09:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Naft

Enlighten me why, judging from above it has something to do with him flopping and something to do with L'alizé..

We often mishear lyrics when our Silliness Quotient is high and we want for a straight man!

As it happens, there actually is at least one Web site for logging misheard (mainly English) song lyrics, The Archive of Misheard Lyric. Once in a while, the mistakes are funny, with those voted funniest are listed here. I will comment on many of the better ones immediately below -

=====

Artist Madonna
Song Like a Virgin

Real Lyric
Like a virgin touched
for the very first time.

THE MISHEARD:
Like a virgin touched
for the thirty-first time.

This reminds me of what the late Oscar Levant once said about a musical colleague of his: I knew Doris Day BEFORE she was a virgin.

=====

Artist Cyndi Lauper
Song Girls Just Wanna Have Fun

Real Lyric
Oh mother dear, we're not
the fortunate ones.

THE MISHEARD:
O mamma dear, I'm not
the virgin I was.

See previous song!

=====

Artist Eagles
Song Hotel California

Real Lyric
What a nice surprise
Bring your alibis

THE MISHEARD:
What a nice surprise
When your rabbit dies.

Hell, I'm not surprised after the previous songs!

=====

Artist John Denver
Song Country Roads

Real Lyric
West Virginia,
Mountain Momma,

HE MISHEARD:
West Virginia,
Mount yer Momma,

This brings to mind the VERY NSFW song by the UK's Ivor Biggun, Halfway Up Virginia. If indeed Corsica is like Appalachia ringed with a coastline, I just hope the muvrini in Corsica (or for that matter, Armenia) don't have it this bad!

=====

Artist Eagles
Song Take It Easy

Real Lyric
I'm looking for a lover
who won't blow my cover
She's so hard to find.

THE MISHEARD:
I'm looking for a lover
who won't blow my brother
She's so hard to find.

See previous song!

=====

Artist The Beatles
Song Michelle

Real Lyric
Michelle ma belle,
sont des mots qui vont
très bien ensemble,
très bien ensemble.

THE MISHEARD:
Michelle ma belle,
some say monkeys
play piano well,
play piano well.

Pardon my French? Or maybe I should save that for the next example!

=====

Artist Theme Songs
Song Rudolph, The Red-Nosed Reindeer

Real Lyric
You'll go down in history

THE MISHEARD:
You'll go down and hit the tree

What a plot twist in a road movie! But it also reminds me of yet another VERY NSFW song, which I very much doubt will ever be a Christmas song by Tahiti Boy - Rudolph the Deep Throat Reindeer

=====

Artist Traditional
Song We Wish You A Merry Christmas

Real Lyric
Now bring us some figgy pudding

THE MISHEARD:
Now bring us some friggin' pudding

This one is practically wholesome after the previous song.

=====

Artist Hymns
Song Hark The Herald Angels Sing

Real Lyric
Peace on earth and mercy mild
God and sinners reconciled

THE MISHEARD:
Peace on earth and mercy mild
Goddamn sinners reconciled

At least the carols keep getting cleaner.

=====

Artist The Beatles
Song Get Back

Real Lyric
Jo Jo was a man who
thought he was a loner.

THE MISHEARD:
Jo Jo was a man
before he was a woman.

See Lou Reed.

=====

Artist Ray Jr. Parker
Song Ghostbusters

Real Lyric
Who ya gonna call?
Ghostbusters!

THE MISHEARD:
Who ya gonna call?
Those bastards!

Les Enfoirés ?!!!

=====

Artist Robert Palmer
Song Addicted To Love

Real Lyric
Might as well face it,
you're addicted to love.

THE MISHEARD:
Might as well face it,
you're a d**k with a glove.

Taken to be a cruel jab at Alizée favorite, the late MJ.

=====

Alizée herself also has a page for misheard lyrics here, but there is only one entry to date and it is hardly funny. So instead I'll close with the following -

Artist Madonna
Song La Isla Bonita

Real Lyric
Tropical the island breeze
All of Nature wild and free
This is where I long to be
La Isla Bonita

THE MISHEARD:
Just call me an island slease
All my body yours for free
This is who I long to be
Louise the Bone Eater

Sorry - I don't buy this one, but it's a(n) (in?)decent parody!

Corsaire · #42 03-01-2011, 12:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scruffydog777

All the connections in this thread, between Alizee and tinkerbell I think are just too many to be mere co-incidence and I would think it would just show the genius of Mylene Farmer, but you (Corsaire) seem to think that LB had more to do with it. We've heard a lot about Mylene Farmer but very little about LB, so I'd like to hear more of why you think he is responsible for this.

It is clear that MF’s career and persona were built on the videos, the topics/lyrics and the music. The only aspect in which MF made a major contribution (according to the official story) is the topics/lyrics, and even then, it is clear that the controversial themes that made MF what she is today were mostly part of LB’s documented imagery before the two even met. As for MF herself, unless I am mistaken, there exist no relics of any work she would have done prior to collaborating with LB that discussed or used any of these controversial themes. Therefore, I think it is safe to claim that LB was the main creative force behind the MF concept. As for the Alizée concept, I would say the same thing basically happened. And, as I mentioned before, LB already had the idea of a 15 year old singer exploiting provocative and controversial themes 20 years before the Alizée concept was born:

“In the early 80’s LB first wanted Lio to sing the song “Maman a tort” that would eventually become MF’s first single. He finally selected MF before he even heard her sing a single note, mainly because of her psychotic look... Ohh... and at some point, LB apparently also considered a 15 year old singer, but would have given up on the idea because of legal considerations. It is interesting that 20 years later, he would, with MF, launch the career of then 15 year old Alizée.”
From http://alizeeamerica.com/forums/show...?t=6257&page=3

Actually, I have been thinking about creating a thread on this very topic (who is LB and what did he bring to the mix) for a while now. I will certainly do at some point.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scruffydog777

The part with the drumsticks I find a little far fetched, only for the reason if they wanted it to appear like Tinkerbell spreading fairy dust over people, they would have used just one wand or drumstick in this case, but the sparks afterwards make you think twice. I think they could've come up with a much better Tinkerbellish move, such as this.

Myself, I think the use of drumsticks was very clever. Why use two rather than just one? Who knows, but a possible answer could be that it would have made Alizée’s drumming look awkward if she did use just one.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scruffydog777

Very nice Tinker Bell move indeed! Nice little bell sounds as she lowers down the wand... err... the microphone! These particular sounds are not in the studio version, but to be fair, there are a few differences between the En concert and studio versions during the “Lo…li…ta” part.

Un-rêve · #43 03-01-2011, 08:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Corsaire

Very nice Tinker Bell move indeed! Nice little bell sounds as she lowers down the wand... err... the microphone! These particular sounds are not in the studio version, but to be fair, there are a few differences between the En concert and studio versions during the “Lo…li…ta” part.

Haha.. I never noticed the bell sound until you pointed it out.. yeah when Alizée bends over here it's classic Tinker Bell stuff.

Good stuff Scruffydog!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scruffy dog777

Yes it's very much like the picture on this vid.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Corsaire

Corsaire · #44 03-01-2011, 11:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scruffydog777

I think it's pretty obvious that Mylene Farmer thinks that sexs sells and I think she also thinks that sex should be part of life at a very early age. But it's very obvious that Alizee is cut from much different stock. So how could she get Alizee to wear these revealing outfits of ML, JAM and JPVA? By showing her that a fairy tale character, who Alizee adored, wore them. If a Disney character can wear them, surely it must be okay for her to wear them!

Interesting, but I think what went on was deeper than a simple suggestion or persuasion. I doubt such experienced people (LB/MF) would rely on the fact that the newly recruited 15 year old singer (and her parents) would necessarily fall in that trap. It would have been too risky to hope this would just happen. What if, at some point, Alizée (and/or her parents) did not buy the “it must be OK since Tinker Bell did it”? LB/MF knew what to expect or they would never have invested in the career of an adolescent that can ruin the whole thing at any time. A significant change in the situation did happen in 2003-2004, but I don’t think anyone can really tell what it is. And as I said before, if Alizée and LB/MF did not split at that time, I am pretty sure there was much more provocative/controversial stuff coming for the third album.

There are fundamental themes in the Tinker Bell character and the Peter Pan story and to simply believe (not that you do yourself) that all the references to those themes, some of which have been exposed in the present thread, simply revolve around the fact that Alizée’s loves the Tinker Bell character is a little too simplistic to me. I think the type of obsession that Alizée had (still has?) for the Tinker Bell character can be programmed into individuals and people can be manipulated into adopting certain behavioural patterns ... and yes, I would even go as far as to say that this could happen against people’s own will.

I might start a thread about this topic too at some point... So many topics... so little time.

Naft · #45 03-01-2011, 11:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FanDeAliFee

-snip-

Oh, I see, thanks!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Corsaire

Interesting, but I think what went on was deeper than a simple suggestion or persuasion. I doubt such experienced people (LB/MF) would rely on the fact that the newly recruited 15 year old singer (and her parents) would necessarily fall in that trap. It would have been too risky to hope this would just happen. What if, at some point, Alizée (and/or her parents) did not buy the “it must be OK since Tinker Bell did it”? LB/MF knew what to expect or they would never have invested in the career of an adolescent that can ruin the whole thing at any time. A significant change in the situation did happen in 2003-2004, but I don’t think anyone can really tell what it is. And as I said before, if Alizée and LB/MF did not split at that time, I am pretty sure there was much more provocative/controversial stuff coming for the third album.

There are fundamental themes in the Tinker Bell character and the Peter Pan story and to simply believe (not that you do yourself) that all the references to those themes that have been exposed in this thread simply revolve around the fact that Alizée’s loves the Tinker Bell character is a little too simplistic to me. I think the type of obsession that Alizée had (still has?) for the Tinker Bell character can be programmed into individuals and people can be manipulated into adopting certain behavioural patterns ... and yes, I would even go as far as to say that this could happen against people’s own will.

I might start a thread about this topic too at some point... So many topics... so little time.

Since she was (is?) a fan of Madonna and had Myléne involved in it the provocative things seemed "natural" for a celebrity, if you get what I'm saying.

Corsaire · #46 03-02-2011, 12:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Naft

Since she was (is?) a fan of Madonna and had Myléne involved in it the provocative things seemed "natural" for a celebrity, if you get what I'm saying.

I just do not see how any experienced people like LB/MF would let Alizée’s opinions/preferences guide any important decision. For example, if Alizée was over sexualized, I doubt she was the one who decided that it would be that way. This is not to say she did not want to be part of it or did not realize what was going on, but realistically, producing an artist that rises to such level of popularity is serious business matter and you don’t let an inexperienced teenager decide what themes will be exploited. I am aware of the fact that Alizée used to mention in interviews that she had a say in many decisions and that they were most often working as a trio (Alizée/LB/MF), but does anyone really expect that she would publicly state that she was just simply doing what was decided for her?

For the same reason, I find a little far fetched (to say the least) the idea that Tinker Bell has been used so ubiquitously just because Alizée happened to love the character. Walt Disney’s characters, stories and themes have been used over and over again in popular music, movies and television shows and I think this is simply another such case. As to why those recurrent characters, stories and themes are constantly used, well, that is another story altogether.

pepelepew · #47 03-02-2011, 01:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Corsaire

I just do not see how any experienced people like LB/MF would let Alizée’s opinions/preferences guide any important decision. For example, if Alizée was over sexualized, I doubt she was the one who decided that it would be that way. This is not to say she did not want to be part of it or did not realize what was going on, but realistically, producing an artist that rises to such level of popularity is serious business matter and you don’t let an inexperienced teenager decide what themes will be exploited. I am aware of the fact that Alizée used to mention in interviews that she had a say in many decisions and that they were most often working as a trio (Alizée/LB/MF), but does anyone really expect that she would publicly state that she was just simply doing what was decided for her?

For the same reason, I find a little far fetched (to say the least) the idea that Tinker Bell has been used so ubiquitously just because Alizée happened to love the character. Walt Disney’s characters, stories and themes have been used over and over again in popular music, movies and television shows and I think this is simply another such case. As to why those recurrent characters, stories and themes are constantly used, well, that is another story altogether.

It is my understanding that what americans would deem provocative would be mainstream in France although Corsica is more conservative. I think it came fast and furious for Alizee and she was caught up in the role playing of a Lolita and probably enjoyed it as a role. The level of overnight success was as exciting as anything. I also think that she was bored with that role by the second album and her rebellion against carrying the Lolita role to a slut wasn't appealing to Alizee. She had to put a fork in it. It was done. I also agree that she had little say in the strategy, wardrobe or themes of the music. LB/Mf may have led her to believe that some of it was her idea or reverse psychology or whatever it took to motivate her so to speak. Whether she was heavily hypnotized and responded in kind to tinkerbell symbols is an interesting twist. I also agree that LB is the mad scientist behind Mylene and Alizee's success. Not to deminish either ladies talent that was necessary for success to be possible.

Naft · #48 03-02-2011, 06:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Corsaire

-

I think you're onto something, she might have had a say in the "smaller" parts, but not the make-or-break things.

Bigdan · #49 03-02-2011, 08:54 AM

Corsaire · #50 03-02-2011, 08:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pepelepew

It is my understanding that what americans would deem provocative would be mainstream in France although Corsica is more conservative. I think it came fast and furious for Alizee and she was caught up in the role playing of a Lolita and probably enjoyed it as a role. The level of overnight success was as exciting as anything. I also think that she was bored with that role by the second album and her rebellion against carrying the Lolita role to a slut wasn't appealing to Alizee. She had to put a fork in it. It was done. I also agree that she had little say in the strategy, wardrobe or themes of the music. LB/Mf may have led her to believe that some of it was her idea or reverse psychology or whatever it took to motivate her so to speak. Whether she was heavily hypnotized and responded in kind to tinkerbell symbols is an interesting twist. I also agree that LB is the mad scientist behind Mylene and Alizee's success. Not to deminish either ladies talent that was necessary for success to be possible.

I would say that Alizée was provocative even for French standards. In the US, this level of provocative is probably closer to “unacceptable”. I have quite a few French friends and colleagues and the general consensus is that Alizée was provocative, but never in an unacceptable way. In this particular case, the France-US difference is mainly on what is acceptable or not, I believe. For example, French people who see the overtly sexual content of ML, will rarely be offended by it, compared to Americans. This is all generally speaking, of course.

I think you might not be going as deep/dark/occult as I do, but I am happy to see that at least one AAm member has a mindset relatively close to mine. Maybe I am not alone here...

...

... LB could indeed be considered as a mad scientist performing experiments with controversial concepts and exploring the darkest aspects of human nature. Actually, I would say “unconventional” and “occult”, rather than “mad”. “Heavily hypnotized” is not exactly what I am thinking of, but I suppose this is close enough.

Concerning the contributions of MF and Alizée, I would say they were basically “actresses” in front of the camera while LB was the “director” behind it. Actors can certainly inspire a director and influence certain aspect of the production, but I think the fundamental concepts are the director’s vision. Maybe this is too simplistic, but I think it is pretty close to the truth.

Edit:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bigdan

This is "toc de mac"!!

I am sure you just meant this as a light-hearted addition to this thread, but to me, this simple video really brings out what the concept was all about since there was obviously a facet that was linked to mass suggestion and manipulation. Alizée was more than charming and enchanting, she was also bewitching (ensorcelling). There was a definite and effective mass manipulation operation going on.